Rating compatibility

Proposals and Suggestions for new features and improvements in XnView Classic

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Postby oops66 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:35 pm

Hello,
Yes, it would be great, if XnView could read and write the rating in the same way as Vista is doing it.

What would be the advantage of writing a rating into the all-purpose keywords?
Like this :
Code:
[XMP-xmp] - Rating : 3
or like this ... :
Code:
[XMP-iptcCore] - Rating : 3
or
Code:
[XMP-###...##] - Rating : 3-star-rating

It's only to illustrate the complexity to standardize all possible cases.

For me, it would be great to have also a rating option to write into the jpg on IPTC like :keywords field, because by this way, it's very easy to use the XnView function " Tools\search\IPTC\ " ( not possible in Ver. 1.92 with XMP fields).

The best way for me is :
a-) a search xnview function on XMP fields (plus in this case 3 write ratings possibilities : XMP (jpg destructive), category.db(non destructive) , and both (destructive) ).
or
b-) an option to write ratings in 1)only XMP, or 2) only IPTC keywords field, (destructive and not fast search into xnview)
or 3) only into category.db (xnview default), (non destructive and fast search)
or 4) XMP+category.db or 5)IPTC keywords field+category.db (destructive fast search)
(5 possibilities).
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Postby Dirk13 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:32 am

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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:17 pm

I think compatibility is fundamental. However I would like to point to another thing, maybe easyer to implement. I would like to be able to customise the Color Labels DEFINITIONS, as well as the Ratings labels.
Ratings are for to rate images by quality ok, but I don't divide them in: bad, below average, average, good, excelent, for instance. If a picture is bad, it doesn't deserve nothing but 0 (zero), so it's a waste to give it 1(one).
A 1 Star/Rating picture, to me, is a picture I can show to a client for choice. A 2 is my (photographer) choice/suggestion for that job, etc.
I'm trying to follow Peter Krough's advice on this, as he explains here:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/02/24/keywords-and-metadata.html
Really, this article, an extract from The DAM Book, worth reading.
Anyway I'm not trying to sell my personal workflow as the best, I'm just pointing that, different people can have different, and adequate, systems, with diferent labels, and classifications.
I'm not saying the actual labels: bad, average, etc, are wrong. They just don't fit my system, so I would like to be able to redefine them.
Is that possible?

Best
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:30 pm

Just to complement.
Actually I like very much the Lightroom system on this.
There are 3 flags: 'x' black flag (for rejecteds), 'p' white (for pickeds), and 'u' unflagged. (the letters are the actual keyboard shortcuts).
5 Star Ratings: 1 to 5, and 0 for unratted (the numbers are mapped to the keyboard).
And finally 5 Color Labels: Red (6), Yellow (7), Green (8), Blue (9), and Purple (no shortcut).
The point is that you can filter your view by any combination of this flags, ratings, and color labels.
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Postby Dirk13 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:37 pm

Hello,

I would think that "standard compatibility" and "individual customization" are quite contradictory. ;-)

To define personal label names for color and ratings is an interesting idea.

The risk is to miuse or abuse fields for an imcompatible purpose. All will work fine as long as you stay in your customizable program, but as soon as you open these files in an other program, your personal metainfo won't be displayed the way you wanted it.

Does the Adobe XMP-rating have these names, or are the five stars abstract?
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:41 pm

Maybe I wasn't clear.
I think XnView's Ratings and Color Labels should be compatible with Adobe's. So if you rate a picture with 2 or 3 Stars in Lightroom(LR), for example, XnView will see 2 or 3 Stars. Or Flags, or Dots. The name you give is not important, and that name should be customizable. For some people 1 means Bad, for others 1 means Good. It doesn't matter as long as if LR assigns 1 XnView sees 1. If XnView assigns 2, LR sees 2.
Is it that clear?
It's the same with Color labels. A Red or Yellow Label should be Red or Yellow in XnView, LR, IView, etc. Although for somebody Red means Trash, for others Yellow means Trash. A pratical and real example: Peter Krogh, the author of The DAM Book:http://www.thedambook.com/index.html uses the Red label for unrated files, but files that will be evaluated eventualy, Green is for files to be send to trash. A coleague of mine uses the Color Labels for different file formats, Red for Raw, Yellow for DNG, Green for PSD,....etc. Because he uses LR and LR 1.x doesn't have a file format filter...
Of course as you use different programs you should have a consistent system of Ratings and Labels where the meaning of each rating and label are the same across the programs and the use you give them.

Best
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Postby xnview » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:38 pm

Eneraldo Carneiro wrote:It's the same with Color labels. A Red or Yellow Label should be Red or Yellow in XnView, LR, IView, etc. Although for somebody Red means Trash, for others Yellow means Trash.

And do you know where are saved Labels in other software?
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:36 pm

xnview wrote:And do you know where are saved Labels in other software?


I'm not sure if I understand the question. What do you mean by "where"?
Anyway I wouldn't know the answer probably. I'm a photographer and I have no programing skills. Sorry.

Best
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Postby xnview » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:43 pm

Eneraldo Carneiro wrote:
xnview wrote:And do you know where are saved Labels in other software?

I'm not sure if I understand the question. What do you mean by "where"?
Anyway I wouldn't know the answer probably. I'm a photographer and I have no programing skills. Sorry.

:-) I would like to know where software store 'Labels'. For example, Rating is stored in XMP metadata as xmp.Rating
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:01 pm

:-) I would like to know where software store 'Labels'. For example, Rating is stored in XMP metadata as xmp.Rating


Well...I have no idea, but I can send you the xmp file of one of my raws, if it helps. If so how may I proceed?
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Postby Dirk13 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:42 pm

Hello Pierre,

I don't know if there is a standardized XMP-field for "Labels".

Here is the current download link for the manual of the image database iView, version 3.1:
http://www.iview-multimedia.com/downloads/manuals/MediaPro31_Manual_Eng.pdf
There, on page 64/65 and 147 it is mentioned that iView's "Labels" are mapped to the "IPTC-urgency, while for "Ratings" an XMP-field like in Photoshop is used.

The newer versions are part of Microsofts Expression Media, perhaps there is a downloadable manual, too?
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:22 pm

Dirk13 wrote:Hello Pierre,

I don't know if there is a standardized XMP-field for "Labels".

Here is the current download link for the manual of the image database iView, version 3.1:
http://www.iview-multimedia.com/downloads/manuals/MediaPro31_Manual_Eng.pdf
There, on page 64/65 and 147 it is mentioned that iView's "Labels" are mapped to the "IPTC-urgency, while for "Ratings" an XMP-field like in Photoshop is used.

The newer versions are part of Microsofts Expression Media, perhaps there is a downloadable manual, too?


It seems a bit complex.
I would be satisfyed if I could call the Ratings anyway it fits me. For instance, I give Rating 1 (1 Star) to pictures I judge are good enough to show to a client. So to call Rating 1 "Bad" doesn't makes sense does it?
When a picture isn't good enough to show, I give it Rating 0 or no Rating, and delete it afterwards. If a picture is Bad it goes to the trash, simply as that.
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Postby Dirk13 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:37 pm

Hello Eneraldo,

I know what you mean. Of course, you can interpret a rating of "1" as you like. Perhaps, you can convince the developer that the program can show (editable) individual names for a rating.

But this text won't be saved in every single file, anyway. The principle of rating as we find it in software, is a bare numerical scale, so the standard-based metadata in IPTC or XMP-format will only contain a number. And this number will be somehow interpreted and visualized by the software.

Texts like "1 = bad" to "5 = very good" are what iView, that other program, might show. I don't think they are standardized.

But I am sure that most people prefer five levels over the binary choice of only "OK" or "not OK".
a) It allows to distinguish better, like school grades.
b) In IT / software / internet, a rating is usually shown in "stars" or "points", rising from low (1) to high (5).

See Amazon, Vista, YouTube...and most image databases. So don't be disappointed if you save a rating of number "1" with XnView and then watch this file with another software as iView or Photoshop, were 1 star will be shown as the (second)-lowest rating.

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Postby xnview » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:27 am

Eneraldo Carneiro wrote:
:-) I would like to know where software store 'Labels'. For example, Rating is stored in XMP metadata as xmp.Rating


Well...I have no idea, but I can send you the xmp file of one of my raws, if it helps. If so how may I proceed?

Yes please
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Postby Eneraldo Carneiro » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:21 pm

xnview wrote:
Eneraldo Carneiro wrote:
:-) I would like to know where software store 'Labels'. For example, Rating is stored in XMP metadata as xmp.Rating


Well...I have no idea, but I can send you the xmp file of one of my raws, if it helps. If so how may I proceed?

Yes please


How may I proceed?
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