Assigning functions to toolbar

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helmut
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Assigning functions to toolbar

Postby helmut » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:45 pm

Note: This discussion is about "assigning functions to toolbar" and started with a bug report.

Subject: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

XnView: MP 0.84
OS: Windows 10 - 64bit

In the toolbar configuration, the list of commands contains three times "Show". Other items like "Recent files" are also listed several times.

Effect: User interface unclear

To reproduce:
1. Open XnView browser
2. Select Tools » Settings | Interface | Toolbar
3. Browse through the list of available commands
Actual behaviour (bug): Command "Show" is listed three times :bug:

Expected behaviour: Commands should better identify themselves. E.g. by different naming, the full path to the appropriate command in the menu, a tooltip, or similar.

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xnview
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Re: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

Postby xnview » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:56 pm

yes i know, the label used in menu is used in toolbar
full path in tooltips?
Pierre.

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helmut
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Re: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

Postby helmut » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:00 pm

xnview wrote:yes i know, the label used in menu is used in toolbar
full path in tooltips?
Full path in tooltips sounds good to me.

Even better might be the full structure of the menu in a tree of commands. The list is very long and finding the right commands can be cumbersome because they are cluttered (alphabetically) throughout the list. E.g "First page" and "Last page" are very relateds but they are far away from each other in the alphabetical list. Note: The same applies for the shortcuts.

EDIT:
I've just moved this to "MP - Suggested" because this needs a bit more discussion and feedback from people.
Last edited by helmut on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vertigo
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Re: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

Postby vertigo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:55 pm

It's worth noting this only applies to 'Browse mode' in the dropdown box above the left pane (applicable to the browser mode). I've just started using XnView so I'm learning its ins and outs, and it took me a while to figure that out, as well as what the browse and view mode were referencing. Here's an example:

View > Data Pane > Show

What you're suggesting is to display that path like that, or perhaps just "Data Pane > Show," in a tooltip. I wonder if it would be possible to instead do something like this:

Current label (Show) +(concatenate) Parent menu label (Data Pane) = Show Data Pane

Just seems like it would be cleaner that way. And while this would need to be shown in the tooltip on the toolbar, it could just replace the current text for the items in the pane in the 'Interface > Toolbar' tab.

As for sorting in a tree functionally vs alphabetically, that's tough. Whenever I deal with such a list I do tend to get a bit frustrated when two very closely related items are far apart because the list is alphabetical, but the flip side of that is that a functionally sorted list can be more difficult to find things initially because it's not always clear what category an item might be in. So you have to decide whether to make it easier to find an item initially or easier to find a related item. Here are some options:

- Allow the user to switch back and forth between an alphabetical and functionally organized list.
- Keep it alphabetical but have items related to each other (back/forward, rotate ccw/cw, previous file/next file, etc) branched off. For example, you could find back in the b's, then expand it to find forward, and you could also find forward in the f's, then expand it to find back. This would mean having many duplicate items in the list.
- Make an option to clean up the list (remove the second column with all the cmd_xyz stuff) and make the list fullscreen with multiple columns so all the options could be seen at once, negating the need to scroll back and forth all over the place looking for something.
- A combination of the above.
- Not worry about it or spend too much time on it since it's something the user will only need to mess with once with some possible periodic tweaking here and there (don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating ignoring requests to improve it, but if nobody's really asking...).
- Perhaps the best solution, IMO, would be to change how it's done altogether. Instead of opening the settings window and moving things from one vertical list to another, when the toolbar is horizontal, what about having it open a window with all the available items not already on the toolbar (essentially the left pane in the settings), without the second column (all the cmd_xyz stuff) and make it resizable with multiple rows and columns so as many items will fit in a window of a given size as possible. Then allow items to be dragged back and forth between this window and the toolbar. See Pale Moon's (and I'm assuming Firefox's) method of customizing the toolbars to see what I mean if it's unclear.

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helmut
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Re: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

Postby helmut » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:49 pm

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. Rather than writing the pros and cons of each single suggestion you made I try to sketch a solution:

- Functions should be listed hierarchically by default
- The hierarchy follows the menu structure of XnView MP
- When opening, hierarchy could be unexpanded and show the main menu items, only.
- Hierachy could be either a real tree (prefered) or a list using the "path" of each menu item (e.g. File » Open).
- In the hierarchy seperators might be used (just like iin the menu)

Optional:
The user might switch between hierarchical order and by command ("Open").

Advantages:
- The menu structure of XnView MP is supposed to be reasonable and the user is familiar (more or less) with it.
- Related functions are listed next to each other e.g.
View > File > Previous File
View > File > Next File
View > File > First File
View > File > Last file

Having a look at the suggested PaleMoon, FireFox, or WinWord is a good idea. But after all the benefit for the user and effort of implementation should be in balance (in other words: user interface should be useable but mustn't offer all comfort you could think of).

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Re: 0.84: Three times command "Show" for toolbar

Postby XnTriq » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:30 pm

helmut wrote:Even better might be the full structure of the menu in a tree of commands. The list is very long and finding the right commands can be cumbersome because they are cluttered (alphabetically) throughout the list. E.g "First page" and "Last page" are very relateds but they are far away from each other in the alphabetical list.

Directory Opus has the best solution I've seen so far.

GPSoftware (Directory Opus v9 → Customize) wrote:As with Preferences, at the bottom of the Customize box is a Filter field. This field is available on the Commands and Keys tabs. In the Commands tab it filters commands that are displayed in the list, and in the Keys tab it filters based on a hotkey you enter – this makes it very easy to locate the entry for a specific hotkey. For example, on the Commands tab you can type words in to find related commands and on the Hotkeys tab you can push qualifier keys (Alt, Shift, Ctrl) and/or letters to see the hotkeys which include the things you pushed.

GPSoftware (Directory Opus v11 → Customize → The Customize Dialog → Commands) wrote:The Commands page displays a list of commands that you can easily add to toolbars by drag and drop. The commands are divided into a number of categories that loosely groups similar commands (often commands are grouped based on where they appear in the default toolbars).

[…]

At the bottom of the Customize dialog (when it's showing the Commands page) is a field that lets you filter the commands list.
When you enter one or more keywords in the field and press the Enter key the list will be filtered to only show those commands whose name or description contains the keyword(s). This can make it very easy to find a pre-defined command when you remember its name but not what category it is in. To clear the filter either press Escape when the cursor is in the field, or click the little X button at the right-hand end of the field.


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phaolo
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Re: Assigning functions to toolbar

Postby phaolo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:24 am

I agree with this.
Similar icons should be grouped in the list, if possible.

For example:
"Fit - no fit", "Fit - window, large only".
"Browse - Back", "Browse - Forward", "Browse - Up"
Etc..


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