0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

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cadu
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0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Mon May 29, 2017 11:56 am

Hi,

I'm facing a problem with image files, specially when I use the command "View>Update catalog from files".
I use this command to update rating/labels I have may changed when editing mostly DNG/JPG in Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) or Lightroom.
However, after using this command XnView is messing up the metadata, and also removing all categories tags from that image.
I can rebuild the image to work properly again by using the command "View>Rebuild thumbnails". However, since the former command removed all categories from the image, so the recovery is only partial, since categories are lost forever.
Initially I thought this as a problem only related to images that I had updated rating/label in ACR/Lightroom, but it is happening in many situations I didn't handle the image externally. I mean, most DNG/JPG I tried presented this problem in XnView 0.86 when "View>Update catalog from files" is used.
I recorded my screen showing the issue in details: https://goo.gl/oAt2wS (although I showed the issue for DNGs, it is the same for JPGs).
I also made available for testing some photos I used in the demonstration, which presented the problem: https://goo.gl/sJ5GpH
If you need further info, just let me know.

Thanks,
Carlos_Cadu

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:04 pm

cadu wrote:However, after using this command XnView is messing up the metadata, and also removing all categories tags from that image.
I can rebuild the image to work properly again by using the command "View>Rebuild thumbnails". However, since the former command removed all categories from the image, so the recovery is only partial, since categories are lost forever.

The file or sidecar is modified???

Could you post a screenshot of settings>Metadata?

It seems that you have .xmp sidecar with your DNG files, is it possible to have them?
Pierre.

cadu
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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:05 pm

It seems that you have .xmp sidecar with your DNG files, is it possible to have them?

=> Although Adobe (Photoshop/Lightroom) doesn't create sidecars for DNG files (all metadata is embedded), other applications create xmp sidecars for DNGs (e.g. ACDSee, FastRawViewer). I mean, Adobe is the only one who writes metadata/label/rating into DNG, and other software programs doesn't do that. But once there is an XMP sidecar created by any other program, both Photoshop/Lightroom will read it as their primary source of metadata, even overwriting embedded metadata/label/rating.

a) Anyway, focusing the issue on DNGs, I performed more detailed tests, which are leading to a inconsistency when syncing label/rating between XnView/Photoshop/Lightroom.
Photoshop/Lightroom can read XnView XMP sidecar with label/rating information. However, when label/rating is changed in Photoshop/Lightroom, these applications embed the label/rating in the DNG files, removing the XMP sidecar.
Then, the label/rating in VnView become different from those in Photoshop/Lightroom.
Trying solving that, in VnView I performed "view>update catalog from files", and what happens is that VnView removes all label/rating, keeping them different (not in sync) with Photoshop/Lightroom.
Please, see the tests here: https://goo.gl/j6yd3X (metadata settings for all applications are showed in the screen-recording)

b) As a comparison triangulating labels/ratings among applications, I tried the same, but instead of VnView I used FastRawViewer/Photoshop/Lightroom.
In that case, all the applications keep labels/ratings in sync properly.
FastRawViewer does create the XMP sidecars for DNGs, same as XnView. However, when Photoshop/Lightroom embed the label/rating in the DNG files, removing the XMP sidecar, FastRawViewer is able to read the new information (that is the point VnView seems to fail) .
Please, see the tests here: https://goo.gl/uCBKie (metadata settings for all applications are showed in the screen-recording)

I'll perform more tests, trying to identify when another problem happens (the one mentioned in the first post in this thread): In some cases when I performed in XnView menu "view>update catalog from files", all ratings/labels becomes messed. XnView doesn't recognize the files as images anymore (i.g. if you filter just images, the files disappear from view). Along with it, XnView removes all categories the images were set. In the tests above this didn't happen, although the tests already showed a possible issue in which XnView doesn't keep rating/label in sync with Photoshop/Lightroom.

Please, consider sync issue between XnView/Photoshop/Lightroom as possible issue which may need a fix for now. On the other hand, maybe the fix is needed just in my XnView metadata settings, which could be tweaked to work properly.

Image

If you need further info, please let me know.

Thanks,
Carlos

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 pm

a) Anyway, focusing the issue on DNGs, I performed more detailed tests, which are leading to a inconsistency when syncing label/rating between XnView/Photoshop/Lightroom.
Photoshop/Lightroom can read XnView XMP sidecar with label/rating information. However, when label/rating is changed in Photoshop/Lightroom, these applications embed the label/rating in the DNG files, removing the XMP sidecar.
Then, the label/rating in VnView become different from those in Photoshop/Lightroom.
Trying solving that, in VnView I performed "view>update catalog from files", and what happens is that VnView removes all label/rating, keeping them different (not in sync) with Photoshop/Lightroom.

I have a folder with 3 DNG files, i open them in XnViewMP, and open them in lightroom, change the rating or label
Back to XnView, i use 'update catalog from files', and rating/label is correctly restored
If i assign a category in XnView, and use 'update catalog from files', there is a problem! Rating was not saved in sidecar so import remove rating.

cadu wrote:I'll perform more tests, trying to identify when another problem happens (the one mentioned in the first post in this thread): In some cases when I performed in XnView menu "view>update catalog from files", all ratings/labels becomes messed. XnView doesn't recognize the files as images anymore (i.g. if you filter just images, the files disappear from view). Along with it, XnView removes all categories the images were set. In the tests above this didn't happen, although the tests already showed a possible issue in which XnView doesn't keep rating/label in sync with Photoshop/Lightroom.

Could you send me the 2 picture files in your demo?
Pierre.

cadu
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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:38 pm

You can access the photos here: https://goo.gl/XRTSqf
I just tried another setting (snapshot below), in which "import XMP subject..." is checked, and in that case XnView could read the rating/label changed in Adobe applications.
I'm a bit confused now, since this setting doesn't seem to be related with rating/label...

Image

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:50 pm

cadu wrote:I just tried another setting (snapshot below), in which "import XMP subject..." is checked, and in that case XnView could read the rating/label changed in Adobe applications.
I'm a bit confused now, since this setting doesn't seem to be related with rating/label...

Right 'update catalog' remove rating/label if this setting is not enabled, it's a bug
Pierre.

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Pierre,
Which is the metadata settings you recommend in XnView in order it is expect to work the best way exchanging/syncing metadata (including categories/keywords) with Lightroom?
Based on these settings I would like to start over all my tests.
Thank you!
Carlos

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:57 pm

cadu wrote:Which is the metadata settings you recommend in XnView in order it is expect to work the best way exchanging/syncing metadata (including categories/keywords) with Lightroom?
Based on these settings I would like to start over all my tests.

Currently there is a bug if you don't enable 'import XMP subject', rating/albel will be removed if you use 'update catalog from files'.
If you want to import correctly your categories, you need this setting

Another bug is if you add a category in XnViewMP, a sidecar is created, but if you use 'update catalog from files', rating/label will be removed
Pierre.

cadu
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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:11 pm

In all cases you found that rating/label is removed, the attached category is removed as well.

cadu
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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby cadu » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:24 pm

xnview wrote:Currently there is a bug if you don't enable 'import XMP subject', rating/albel will be removed if you use 'update catalog from files'.
If you want to import correctly your categories, you need this setting

After testing 0.87 beta 1, it seems to be fixed, as showed in this video (test 1): https://goo.gl/i5sazJ

xnview wrote:Another bug is if you add a category in XnViewMP, a sidecar is created, but if you use 'update catalog from files', rating/label will be removed

I couldn't reproduce this exact bug in 0.86 or 0.87. However, I did find a strange behavior (bug?) regarding categories.
When "Export DB category to XMP..." is checked and XnView creates sidecars for the categories applied to images, if you open the image in ACR, make any adjustment in image (no change in metadata), then 'update catalog from files' will remove all categories previously applied.
This happens with 0.86 and even in 0.87, as showed here (test 2): https://goo.gl/TJ8Zkz

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:37 am

cadu wrote:When "Export DB category to XMP..." is checked and XnView creates sidecars for the categories applied to images, if you open the image in ACR, make any adjustment in image (no change in metadata), then 'update catalog from files' will remove all categories previously applied.

It's not really a bug. The file is modified outside, so XnViewMP needs to re-import data, but the setting to import categories is unset, so categories are removed to be sync.
Pierre.

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Re: 0.86: "Update catalog from files" is messing up image metadata and removing categories

Postby xnview » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:13 pm

This problem is supposed to be fixed in XnView MP 0.87. Please check and confirm the bug fix here.
Pierre.


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