Advise howto manage images over categories

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soleria
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Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by soleria » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Hello,

I'm new to this newsgroup so first of all many thanks to Pierre for all the efforts in this excellent software package.
Secondly I tried to find a kind of best practice for categories or other kind of tagging in standard metadata like XMP/IPTC but was not fully successfull in the newsgroups.

The primary intention of using XnViewMP (on Windows with a NAS device and the A... cloud as backup) is for managing lot of DNG photos.
I started using a folder structure on the NAS but with the more and more pictures I have, I'd like to use some kind of tagging mechanism.
For me categories in XnView seems to be the best option as they allow me find eg. fotos of my children across the complete folder structure later.

What worries me a bit here is the issue of how to keep the categories in case eg. switching systems or software later.
Therefore ideally assigned categories for an image would be saved into each DNG file as well after being assigned in IPTC or XMP metadata including their hierarchy.

So in case of a system change categories could be exported from images and the categories could be rebuild from images.

Would this make sense for you and is writing of categories a standard metadata format like XMP/IPTC into DNG image this supported in XnView and other known image managing software like Lightroom ACDsee etc.?

What I tried is to set categories with XnViewMP into one (DNG) image but when opening it eg. in IrfanView it will not show any Category information in the ITPC metadata, so it seems this information is only stored into the XnViewMP database but not in the image.
Is there any best practice for XnView around?

Thanks,
Tom

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XnTriq
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by XnTriq » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 am

Welcome aboard, Tom.

Have you considered using sidecar files (forum search)?
m.Th. ([url=http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?p=139904#p139904]Companion / XMP files[/url]) wrote:1. Professional cameras (many, many dSLRs) have a mode called RAW+JPEG. This mode is used for various reasons: for example one wants to have the JPEG readily available to send it somewhere (usually to a news/corporate web site, a coworker etc) or as a preview in Explorer (or somewhere else) but to have also the full image data in RAW files.

2. Image metadata. RAW files are considered „valuable assets” and, hence, untouchable. That's why they are treated read-only and, thus, their metadata cannot be changed. Ok, sometimes we can apply a star/color rating, but definitely categories (keywords in other DAMs) and Raw edits (XnView MP cannot do it but there are some very well established non-destructive Raw editors: Lr, ACDSee, CaptureOne, DxO Optics Pro, ASP etc.) are stored in these „companion files” called also sidecars. They are stored in XMP format (a variant of XML).

Hence we have two categories of companion files:

- different formats (usually a slim JPG next to a much heavier format like a variant of Raw or TIFF).
- XMP sidecars (for metadata & edits)

soleria
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by soleria » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:16 am

Many Thanks m.Th. for your advises and the valuable links to the other postings here, some of them I knew already but not all.

So if sidecars are the established standard I'll get more familiar with them.

I'm actually not using RAW (DNG) + JPG files at the same time.
Reason is that I like to avoid having the same picture twice as this is a bit annoying when browsing a folder with eg. Explorer.
Using DNG works (mostly) perfect the only issue is Amazon Drive as only the embedded thumb can be displayed over their app.
But as I typically use a NAS drive as primary storage and the cloud only as backup thats not a real problem.

Thanks
Tom

ColinG
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by ColinG » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:25 pm

Hope you do not mind me jumping on this thread but my question is keyword related also. I have started using DxO PhotoLab as my raw editor of choice and am cancelling my Adobe Subscription. I therefore need an image browser/organiser to fill the gap left by LR and XnView could well be it. My only concern is tagging/keywording. My workflow is to bring my images into XnView for cataloguing/culling etc, from there round tripping to PhotoLab for raw editing. Will any tagging etc carried out in XnView be preserved and will the XnView thumbnail be updated to reflect the edited image.

One final question on set-up. Is it possible to set XnView up so all that it displays image files only and not all the other stuff that might be in the folder - like sidecar files or even non image related stuff.

Thanks

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XnTriq
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by XnTriq » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Sorry for the delay, ColinG. I somehow missed your post.
ColinG wrote:Will any tagging etc carried out in XnView be preserved […]
You can customize XnView's behavior in ToolsSettings...MetadataIPTC & XMP.
ColinG wrote:[…] and will the XnView thumbnail be updated to reflect the edited image.
If you're using the cache (ToolsSettings...CatalogEnable thumbnail caching), thumbnails for images altered outside of XnView have to be updated manually via ViewRebuild thumbnails.
ColinG wrote:Is it possible to set XnView up so all that it displays image files only and not all the other stuff that might be in the folder - like sidecar files or even non image related stuff.
In ToolsSettings...File listCustom filter, XnView allows you to specify which file types to include/exclude for ViewFilter byCustom.

ColinG
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by ColinG » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Many thanks. Most helpful :-)

ColinG
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by ColinG » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:04 am

Couple of further questions - will updating the thumbnail update thumbnails associated with an edited raw file and is there any intention to provide for image stacking in the future (as per LR)?

Thank you :-)

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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by XnTriq » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:00 pm

ColinG wrote:[…] will updating the thumbnail update thumbnails associated with an edited raw file […]
Are we talking about thumbnails/previews embedded in RAW files or about companion JPEGs paired with RAW files?

Related options:
  • ToolsSettings...ThumbnailMiscUse embedded thumbnail
  • View mode: FileFormat settings...Camera RAWMiscUse embedded thumbnail
ColinG wrote:[…] and is there any intention to provide for image stacking in the future (as per LR)?
Request pending:
Welcome to the forum, BTW :mrgreen:

ColinG
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by ColinG » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:34 pm

Thanks - it is raw files edited in DxO Photo Lab. I have them so that sidecar files are not produced and the editing data is kept in the the DxO database. The thumbnails remain in a pre-edit state and the settings are per your post.

Thanks for the welcome :-)

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XnTriq
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Re: Advise howto manage images over categories

Post by XnTriq » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:30 pm

ColinG wrote:[…] it is raw files edited in DxO Photo Lab. I have them so that sidecar files are not produced and the editing data is kept in the the DxO database. The thumbnails remain in a pre-edit state and the settings are per your post.
Thanks for elaborating.
As of now, XnView MP isn't capable of interpreting DxO's RAW development settings – regardless if saved in DxO's database or as DOP sidecar files.
Frank Engel (ON1 Photo RAW Ideas → [url=http://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/ideas/idea/dxo-dop-support/#comment-712863]DxO dop support[/url]) wrote:Even if the numeric data were correctly read in from the .dop file the fact that the underlying engine is different would mean that you would get different results. If there is a preview/thumbnail image assoicated with the .dop files, it may be useful to display that preview/thumbnail while browsing and allow opening of the “.dop” file by sending the files to DxO optics pro for editing/working, providing more transparent cataloging abilities.

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