[LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

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bdragon
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:06 am

[LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Okay, so a few days ago i dwindled in the untested settings of ccleaner and did some damage to my session manager by clearing it. Up to now this seems to have hit only two "kinds" of programs. Chrome/chromium and XnView/XnConvert.

Namely i am trying to reverse some changes i did, but up to now, it all seems to point that my mistake was to "clean" the session manager.

In chrome i get that at high cpu usage a specific pair of extensions hang my computer when i close chrome, these were previously harmless, and being an engineer i often tax my computer. It seems that by stopping them chrome has no problems anymore, but it seems weird. They are basically a couple of javascript injecting extensions. One is greasemonkey for personalising some sites i visit often, the other is backerkit. Basically the same thing which seems to involve javascript use.

Vice versa i've started to see that xnview and xnconvert have both started hanging again. A problem which i had previously fixed by telling them not to check internet for updates anymore.

Now, if these were my college days i would simply format everything and pass the next day reinstalling everything. But this is not college anymore. I need to work too on this computer and if i reinstall programs on this computer i will have to pass the next two weeks on phone support to get my installation re-initialized to allow those programs to start working again.

So i need to find a solution which does not force me to reinstall everything.

let's go by steps.
- first. What was CCleaner cleaning? It's a system key, so obviously no files, but looking into the winapp2ini this is what the beta testing setting was cleaning:

[Session Manager*]
LangSecRef=3025
Detect=HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows
Default=False
FileKey1=%WinDir%\AppCompat\Programs|*.txt;*.xml
FileKey2=%WinDir%\AppCompat\Programs\Install|*.txt;*.xml
RegKey1=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\AppCompatCache|AppCompatCache
RegKey2=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\AppCompatCache|CacheMainSdb
RegKey3=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\AppCompatCache|SdbTime

so basically what i was undermining was my computer's ability to run applications in compatibility mode.

This does not help me much. the info stored in those three keys are in binary.

- Second, let's also state that rebooting the computer does not affect the hanging. If for any reason xnview or xnconvert have started hanging, they keep hanging every single time, consistently until something i do (explained below) triggers them to actually start working again.

- third, let's then look at how i get xnview to start working again: twiddling with net related stuff seems to do the trick. Stuff like starting chrome to visit a random page (just searching the word "test" seems to do the trick a lot of the times). Starting the network check widget (the one in the system settings) does the trick some other time. using stuff like discord or whatsapp for desktop seems to do the trick too. Even starting a random program which checks its updates seems to be able to unlock XnView.

Now. The problem would be easily solvable if i knew why XnView starts hanging. I know chrome is something javascript related. But i figured that since it was some damage done by cleaning, just doing a clean re-install after getting it to hang should solve the problem.

- Fourth. I did a clean re-install of XnView after it started hanging and it continued hanging. So it *SHOULD* not be a setting. I hope.

- Fifth. i tried a previous version fix. It continued hanging.

- Sixth. i re-installed the latest version. Still hanging.

- Seventh fiddled as usual. Everythign started and even doing the reinstallation of old and newer versions and everything it all continued working normally.

So, basically. For some reasons only "two" programs in the entire computer are affected. And one (chrome/chromium) only in a minor way, while the other (the Xn series) basically refuses to start. At random.

I have to understand why.
- CCleaner is not the culprit anymore. I've tried doing cleanings and it never started hanging after a cleaning.
- For some reasons it seems related to the network. Even as xnview does not check for the network anymore it still "takes possession" of the handles related to my network drivers. However, if it starts it does releas them, while it keeps them if it hangs.
- It might be video card related. As the computer has two video cards, a cheap nvidia one and also an intel integrated one, which functions as a bridge between the nvidia and the monitor (i cannot exclude the intel video card without getting a completely blank screen). It seems that the intel driver, as of the latest version has started becoming some tentacled unholy thing that takes control of anything that shows up on the monitor and everything connected, such as the network driver for anything that uses the video card but also does network related things. Seems like it's wreaking havoc on steam, for instance, locking important directories and files, preventing any change, even serious things like outright stopping people from uninstalling games... And i have a driver that does lock onto all folders and files of the xnview tree and does indeed have the whole steam directory tree handles for some reason (gog is untouched) every time it starts, i see, i thought it was the usual stuff because... uh... xnview and steam DO use a video card and as such it should be handled by a video card. But i do notice now that it does not release xnview/xnconvert upon stopping xnview/xnconvert.
- Or it might be that i stumbled on an actual XnView/XnConvert bug, after all, everything else works fine (now).

So.

First i need to find what is that i do that starts it hanging.

Second i need to find a solution which does not look like [CENSORED] voodoo. Waving a chicken and praying might be good enough for most people, it's not good enough for me. I'm not using xnview for work thank god, I'm an engineer and most of the "images" i look at are cads or pdfs or slides or stuff that uses other programs.

But it's still hindering me when i need the rest namely reading my webcomic archives and stuff. And that annoys me.

Given that i've tried to explain my situation, and i hope you guys have read it all, maybe some of you guys has a suggestion to make? I'll keep checking but a bit of brainstorming might find a solution.

Xnout!
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 2:18 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby Xnout! » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:14 pm

Have you already tried the "process of elimination game"? Uninstall - test out > then Reinstall - or not, anything you suspect.
Attempting both hardware/software other than CCleaner (Chrome, video card(s), etc.)?

Not sure if you have experience building systems but,
on hardware, you can just remove it and reinsert after testing (you don't necessarily need to uninstall accompanying software/drivers).

bdragon
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:06 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:28 pm

Yes, i do have quite a lot of experience building and dismantling computers.

But this is a "laptop" (a desktop replacement really).

There's only 3 parts. Memory. 2 Hard drives. And everything else is soldered in.

Okay, you can dismantle the fans and the case too, but those are not really parts of the computer.

Xnout!
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 2:18 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby Xnout! » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:50 pm

Yeah, ok. Laptops are a lot tougher. I've done it before and wouldn't recommend it.

I've been wanting to update to newest CCleaner (earlier discussion) but haven't done so yet, but now you've got me a little nervous
with your issue, even though you no longer suspect it.

Did you say how long you've had it and what do you suspect about the video card? That it's failing?

bdragon
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:09 pm

Well.

3 conditions have to happen.
1) you have to enable the beta testing functions.
2) you have to feel "invulnerable" because you do the daily backups and keep your antivirus and firewall up to date and did never get any problem in the last several years of work despite trying out several things because you usually know how to clean up.
3) you have to think you "can do it" because you're an engineer and everything so you think if you [CENSORED] up you can fix it.

So yeah. Here i am. [CENSORED] up.

But well... in all honesty. I did this to myself, really.

There's a really good reason if stuff is labeled "BETA". And it' not like it's labeled like that because it's "the cool stuff for the cool kids". Even with the other beta options enabled CCleaner is not giving me exactly problems right now and if you use the vanilla one... well... i doubt you'll lose much more than maybe a couple of system image thumbnails.

But yeah, if you think about it all i lost is the use of a couple of chrome extensions when i tax my system (and i've already fixed that by disabling said extensions except when i need to use them.... and that happens seldom, because it's just a javascript parser for injecting custom javascripts in specific pages, it's not like something i use every single day) and also what amounts to a picture viewer and converter which i'm using for reading comics. So... nothing vital.

It's annoying but not vital. Which is why i'm writing here and not panicking or anything and also not searching for an alternative. I just hate that right now to "fix" the problem i'm doing random things which feel much more like voodoo than actually understanding why the problem exists in the first place.

In an hour or so, after i finish work and dinner i'll try to uninstall and do a clean install of the network drivers. If it's not those i'll have to check onto the weird video card drivers.

Xnout!
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 2:18 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby Xnout! » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:30 pm

Ok.

Keep us posted. I'll try to update sometime after the weekend. I've got a lot of other comp. maintenance/organizational
stuff to do first.

bdragon
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:06 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:34 pm

well i just reinstalled the drivers (as usual they were up to date) so i'll have to check and see if XnView stops working for whatever reason ;)

Fact is: as i said i still don't know why it stops working all of a sudden. I only know that after a week of so without an hitch after i disabled the net check it started hanging again for no apparent reason, but i yet have to know if it's something i'm doing or if it's something that is happening.

I could start logging everything, but i hate delving into logs, mostly because they get gigantic pretty fast and usually the useful stuff is in the last 10 lines. :(

bdragon
Posts: 102
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:56 pm

After reinstalling the network driver haven't had a problem in the last 1 day and 1/2. Will continue to monitor. But apparently it was some kind of problem with the network driver. Not XnView.

Will post update here if problem presents itself again.

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XnTriq
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby XnTriq » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:30 pm

As usual, I'm late to the party, but in case the issue returns, these links might still be of interest:


bdragon
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:36 am

Well that was useful. Thanks for the links, i should have guessed that for any question internet has an answer. I was, however, not paying much attention to the "Windows compatibility" registry issue, because i could not think of a single reason why XnView MP, which has had a lifespan of near zero compared to windows (it's not even at a proper version 1.0!), would have an entry in there as well.

Windows compatibility is, after all, for old software. Designed to run in compatibility modes up to windows 95.

Now, a driver on the other hand?

Yes, drivers have been around much longer and they tend to reuse very old code. And it's bad practice, but i've seen it done over and over again in the past.

Plus CCleaner had already done whatever damage it had done, and if it had been XnView the culprit, then reinstalling xnview (as i did) would have been the solution, creating again the necessary registry entries. But this was not the case.

So yes, i was thinking that XnView could not be the culprit here, despite quite nearly being the only one affected. But could not pinpoint what it was. However i could re-install the drivers regarding whatever was XnView doing and see what happened.

Since the "voodoo solution" was all about fiddling with the internet connection, i tried doing an uninstalling, cleaning and then reinstalling of the network drivers.

Lo and behold "magically" XnView now does not hang anymore (has been like so this 2 full days plus spares at least).

So yes, i can confirm that whatever it was... it was due to the network drivers.

Now.

What i would really like to understand is: Why was XnView the only one affected? (Chrome was already not giving me issues anymore after removing the seldom used extension and... well... it's always good practice not to keep too many extensions anyway.)

For example: Why, even after telling XnView not to check for updates it kept hanging because it could not "properly" (for whatever meaning of "proper" we might use here) access internet?

Now, this might be work for you guys. I don't have the code, nor do i have as much time as you guys have to dedicate myself in finding what this bug was all about. I've already used up 2 "afterdinners" worth of my time, as well as at nearly half an afternoon.

That's 6 hours i did not get paid for, but neither did you as i am currently using it for free ;) But yes, i will actually pay for XnView and upgrade myself from simple leecher of the good stuff to full fledged "user" if you can solve the mystery. :D Yes, i don't have much more time to spare on this thing but will gladly pay those 26 buck$kins you ask... to at least know "why?!". :P I know it's not much, but yes, those are my fictional "2 cents" to give and i can give them to you if you can answer the question.

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XnTriq
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby XnTriq » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:45 pm

XnView MP (and XnConvert) use the Qt cross-platform framework. Qt-based applications seem to rely on the “Qt Network” module (Qt5Network.dll) for accessing the interwebs. Some Qt components have/had their own registry entries, …

XnTriq (XnView and XnViewMP .zip versions portable?) wrote:
  • HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Trolltech
  • HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\QtProject
  • HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\kde.org\libphonon

… so I wouldn't be surprised if there are also references to them in the Windows Application Compatibility cache.

bdragon wrote:Now, this might be work for you guys. I don't have the code, nor do i have as much time as you guys have to dedicate myself in finding what this bug was all about. I've already used up 2 "afterdinners" worth of my time, as well as at nearly half an afternoon.

I'm just an ordinary user who happens to volunteer as a moderator. Pierre's the only developer of all XnView-related software.

bdragon
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:06 am

Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:53 pm

Oh. Sorry about that. I had hoped you guys got paid for moderating a forum. And. (or). That you moderators had any sort of connection with the development team.

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XnTriq
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby XnTriq » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:45 pm

bdragon wrote:Oh. Sorry about that. I had hoped you guys got paid for moderating a forum. And. (or). That you moderators had any sort of connection with the development team.

No problem :-)
Again, there's no development team. Pierre's a one-man band Image

bdragon
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby bdragon » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:52 am

XnTriq wrote:Again, there's no development team. Pierre's a one-man band Image

On the internet you don't freaking tease people about the existance of such smilies in the forum approved smilies :twisted: :wink: :D

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XnTriq
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Re: [LONG] XnView Bug or not? Help to find a problem source.

Postby XnTriq » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:00 pm

bdragon wrote:On the internet you don't freaking tease people about the existance of such smilies in the forum approved smilies :twisted: :wink: :D

It's hotlinked Image


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