keeping resize values

Ask for help and post your question on how to use XnView Classic.

Moderators: XnTriq, xnview

User avatar
Troken
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Troken » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:08 pm

rfrancis wrote:(I feel bad about giving you these bugs when you are already doing so much).
Yes, me to. Hope that Pierre only sees this as constructive discussion for further improvements. Its not a contest in who-finds-most-errors/bugs, I promise.
rfrancis wrote: :bug: Half a bug 3:
... If 'Keep Document size' is checked, the print size should not change when you change the screen size. All the scaling should be done with the DPI.
And vice versa, if you change the DPI, the screen size should be changed.
rfrancis wrote:You can see the the problem easily by doing this:...
Check 'Keep Ratio' and 'Keep Document Size'.
Set screen size to "pixels" and print size to "dots".
If you change either the width or height in the 'Screen Size', the 'Print Size' will change by the same amount.
But I think this is impossible to fix if you are changing the aspect ratio (if 'Keep Ratio is unchecked), because by its nature, changing the ratio would have to change the print size.
I can only suggest that you can only check 'Keep Document Size' if 'Keep Ratio' is checked.
Well... theoretically an image could have different DPI in x and y, but I guess this is not the case here. :) But I did not fully understand the last example. Will not the result simply make the image stretched? Oh... wait a min... If the image gets stretched then the size is changed. Is this your point? So the only way to resolve this, theoretically again, would be to have different DPI in x and y. Pfff... this is getting complicated. I agree, it would be easier only to enable the "Keep document size" box if "Keep ratio" is already checked.

User avatar
Troken
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Troken » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:14 pm

JohnFredC wrote:... Since Units/DPI is the fulcrum around which the other two values "pivot", the dialog needs a method to keep or "lock" the Units/DPI!
But if you uncheck "Keep document size" you already have this feature, haven't you? The DPI remains unchanged.

User avatar
JohnFredC
XnThusiast
Posts: 2010
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida

Post by JohnFredC » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:46 pm

Yes, but it isn't "clear" what is happening. Most users have to approach the dialog from "trial and (unfortunately) error"...

Here's my first attempt to redesign the dialog. It still needs a place to display the "current" pixel size...

Image
John

User avatar
rfrancis
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:30 am
Contact:

Post by rfrancis » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:55 pm

Yes troken,
you would need a diferent DPI for width and height.
Too complicated for my little brain.

John,
Interesting idea, but 'keep ratio' applies to both screen size and print size and so I think it should be global.
How are you creating your dialogs?
Ron

User avatar
xnview
Author of XnView
Posts: 31340
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:31 am
Location: France
Contact:

Post by xnview » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:00 pm

Thanks John, yes 'keep ratio' is global
But why a 'keep dpi'??
Pierre.

User avatar
JohnFredC
XnThusiast
Posts: 2010
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida

Post by JohnFredC » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:54 pm

rfrancis wrote:How are you creating your dialogs?
If they're "from scratch" I use Delphi or MS Access, whichever. If based on existing XnView dialogs, then they are mostly just cut and paste bitmaps...
xnview wrote:But why a 'keep dpi'??
My first attempt at the dialog doesn't make that clear. There are 3 components: pixel size, DPI, and print size. During any resize event, ONE of these is fixed, acts as the pivot for the other two. My attempt was to redefine the dialog to make the relationships more clear and let the user explicitly indicate which of the three to "keep".

I agree about the "keep ratio" check box.

Here's a second attempt. Notice that the Keep controls are now option buttons intended to act as a single group (only one "keep" is possible at a time):

Image
John

User avatar
xnview
Author of XnView
Posts: 31340
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:31 am
Location: France
Contact:

Post by xnview » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:10 pm

JohnFredC wrote: Here's a second attempt. Notice that the Keep controls are now option buttons intended to act as a single group (only one "keep" is possible at a time):
Perhaps the use of radio button for 'print size', 'units' & 'print size' will be better. If you activate 'screen size', you can only change W & H
Pierre.

User avatar
Troken
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Troken » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:35 am

JohnFredC wrote:... (only one "keep" is possible at a time):
Hm... im trying to figure out if there is a situation where no keep is used. If so, the radio buttons do not provide that option.

Say you want to increase an image to 200% in print size, and at the same time increase the DPI to the double. Then the pixel amount will increase too. All values increase = no keep.

Im not completely sure, it is early in the morning and I might not be fully awake yet...

Arqfaim
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Lisboa

Post by Arqfaim » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:36 pm

I think your going overboard with this. Keep it simple with minimal UI change:

I agree and would be entirely satisfied with a way to change the sizes in the Standard Sizes drop-down. The fixed size ones (not %) should all be customizable. If you change resize fields values the currently selected size name in the drop-down is saved. Right-click the size name (or push a button) and the size name could be renamed. Don't want to save it? Leave it on Custom.

"Keep ratio" button is of course indispensable.

I agree "Keep document size" would be better named "Keep print size". I don't agree that it should grey-out the print size fields. A minute print size variation always happens if you change the other parameters. The dialogue correctly displays this. The dialogue is also consistent if Keep document (print) size is ticked and one of the screen dimensions is changed: of course one of the print dimensions changes. IMO this is desirable, "Keep print size" should not override or grey-out sizing fields.

I was initially happy with the screen size transformation values being carried from previous operation but now it just confuses me. Previous behaviour, with current screen dims, was better. Fact is that you expect initial status of the dialogue to reflect the status of the image you have on the screen. Anyway this was only half a solution: If the previous resize was a change in print size you still have to input the values before trying another algorithm.
It would be better to have on the drop-down a "Previous resize" size. If this was second on the list, under Custom, pressing down arrow would restore previous operation. As it is you get 160x120 size.

I think its unnecessary and even undesirable to have radios or checks to "Keep DPI" or "Keep screen size". It really complicates what overrides what and should be really difficult to program. But this is only my opinion. :)

Anyway, if saved resize sizes are implemented, then "Canvas resize" saved sizes should be implemented in the same way.

User avatar
JohnFredC
XnThusiast
Posts: 2010
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida

Post by JohnFredC » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:30 pm

I'm also concerned about overloading the dialog. My approach is probably too complicated.

It just isn't prima facia that leaving "Keep document size" unchecked implies that the DPI is de facto "kept". That should be explicit in the dialog, somewhere.
John

User avatar
rfrancis
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:30 am
Contact:

Post by rfrancis » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:45 am

Pierre,
Did you notice the bugs on the previous page?
I'm afraid that you may have missed it because you didn't respond.
These are real coding bugs with your up-down controls, not just GUI suggestions.
Should I put report them as bugs in the appropriate section?

I agree with the above comments about keeping it simple.
Ron

User avatar
Troken
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Troken » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:12 am

Sure, it should be simple, but still it is currently not satisfying. So even though the discussions here get a little too complicated and overloaded, I belive that it is necessary to have them in order to see many aspects of the problem. And hopefully sovle it for a better and more intuitive GUI and feature that satisfies most users needs.

And in the end, I rather have a stable and working resize dialog that is a little overloaded than a simpler but confusing and less usable dialog.

If there are many objections to a more complicated dialog, can it be stripped down to a simple dialog with an added option in the bottom, i.e. a check box named "Advanced options"? When checked the dialog adds - yes you've guessed it - some more advanced options. Many programs use this type of interface which I find good.
Last edited by Troken on Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
xnview
Author of XnView
Posts: 31340
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:31 am
Location: France
Contact:

Post by xnview » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:21 am

rfrancis wrote:Pierre,
Did you notice the bugs on the previous page?
I'm afraid that you may have missed it because you didn't respond.
These are real coding bugs with your up-down controls, not just GUI suggestions.
Should I put report them as bugs in the appropriate section?
Yes, will be fixed
Pierre.

User avatar
herr_k.
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:11 pm

Post by herr_k. » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:16 am

urgs, a little complicated at this hour :)
the bug which launched this thread is still persistant in 1.93.4 though.

my idea for the resize menu would be the menu like now, but with some keep buttons:

Image
(sorry i dont have 3d activated here ;))

one "keep" should be enough.
of course corresponding boxes would be greyed out.
notice that the "keep document size" field isnt neccessary anymore.
also i like johnc's save & delete buttons beside the standardsize field, but would rename them to add/remove.

/edit:
ah, found the new beta 36!
hm, so the suggestions here are dropped and it will stay like this now. keeping the last values in the dropdown-list?
hm,not the best solution.
btw it doesnt work ... (garbage shown in the list / either too small value or some letters)

User avatar
Troken
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Troken » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:54 am

herr_k. wrote:btw it doesnt work ... (garbage shown in the list / either too small value or some letters)
Yes, I've seen odd letters in the list too.

Post Reply