XnView Software

XvViewMP 1.71 64 bit (MacOSX) on Apple Silicon M1....

So the the Edit IPTC-IIM screen and associated templates work fine for Jpegs and certain raw formats that I have (Sony .arw / Canon .cr2 / and Oly .ORF but NOT Fuji .RAf / nor Panasonic Lumix .RW. This is after a LOT of experimentation.

Is this to be expected and normal? I am able to Edit XMP, but not in the Edit IPTC-IIM dialog even when under Options I choose MODE "XMP, edit or Create IPTC-IIM" or vice versa.

So I can only edit metadata keywords (caption and "categories) etc using the contextual menu or (menu) Metadata- Edit XMP but NOT Metadata- Edit IPTC for those camera raw formats listed above. I have not tried Nikon .NEF files yet, but the point is that some raw file types work for IPTC and others do not.

Is there a list of which ones do and do not work? I would really have thought that the XMP sidecars would be universally accepting of this data.

Is it possible to have a keyword shortcut for XMP metadata similar to cmd-I for IPTC?

Please advise if anyone has a solution to the non conformity of workflow for the various raw formats

thanks....gary

could you send us some sample files?

Merci Pierre for your quick response. I have done experimentation on a different Mac (Intel) computer and find that I am able to edit ITPC on Nikon and Panasonic Lumix raw files that I was apparently unable on an Apple Silicon machine (although I will go back and investigate further...perhaps after reinstalling xnViewMP.

I am sill unable to edit IPTC on two Fuji cameras (X-T5 and X100F). They are fairly large Raw files. I actually have two more Fuji cameras (X-T2 and original X100) that I have yet to try. I realize that there can be issues with Fuji xTrans format files, but Fuji is my main brand that I use

I am unable to attach these raw files because your "Add Files" button shows they "grayed out" and dragging them into the message space reveals -

ERROR
Invalid file extension: 2023_01_Auschwitz_001.RAF

Thanks

gary

66nl wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 6:58 pm I am unable to attach these raw files because your "Add Files" button shows they "grayed out" and dragging them into the message space reveals -

ERROR
Invalid file extension: 2023_01_Auschwitz_001.RAF

Attachment file formats that are not permitted can generally be attached if placed in a ZIP archive, however the current attachment file size limit is 2MiB.

For larger files, a download link is the usual workaround...

Yes, they are all well above the size limit. Here is a Dropbox link

thanks

gary



https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/6bdw0rv1 ... lc0vt&dl=0

IPTC is correctly written, you can check in 'ExifTool' tab. But not correctly readed...

Thanks again Pierre. I am able to see the "keywords" as you describe in the Exiftool section with the keywords labeled as "keywords" in the IPTC section and as "Subject" in the XMP section...so this is good. Reviewing the same files in other software reveals that the "keywords" are indeed visible as "keywords".

So this is completely confusing to me why XnView then is NOT able to show these keywords as "categories". Attempting to display the keywords written as labels on the thumbnails is unsuccessful with a Custom Label of XMP:Subject or IPTC:Keywords, although the labels DO appear with all other camera formats that I have tested except Fuji.

So other than the granular view inside Exiftool, or exiting to different software, is there any way within XnViewMP to see keywords / categories / subjects assigned anywhere? Also, I have been unable to create a successful search for those keywords that only appear in the Exiftool. Is there a recommendation for that?

Again, ALL of this only seems to be an issue (for me) with Fuji RAF files.

thanks

gary

I have been reading through this forum (a LOT) for similar discussions, but unfortunately, a lot of the posts reference settings from earlier versions of xnViewMP with completely different menus... (I am using ver 1.71 64 bit MacOSX)

A couple MORE things that I can not resolve: (1) how to NOT have backup copies created (I do not want them). Earlier posts referenced menus that are no longer there. (2) I am not successful in writing xmp side car files, where I always thought that keywords and other metadata lived. It LOOKS like the keywords are written into the IPTC / XMP section of the exif data in the original raw file. External applications ARE retrieving these values as intended but xnView keeps them hidden internally everywhere EXCEPT when viewed with Exiftool. Not being able to confirm the proper assignment of metadata internally in xnView means I can also not successfully search for those values is a real deal breaker, although all of this clearly works perfectly with Jpegs. I assume xnView is built and targeted toward fully developed Jpegs in the commercial world, but I am struggling with Fuji (RAF) raw files and trying to understand whether my difficulty is due to my learning curve, or a structural limitation of the software.

Here is the ultimate bewildering issue: When I edit XMP from the Metadata MENU (top od screen) - Edit XMP, my keywords and other values only appear in the Exif Tool, but not in the categories panel or category sets panel. When I do the exact same values using the CONTEXTUAL menu (right click on a thumbnail) Metadata- Edit XMP, I get the exact same dialogue, but the values ARE shown as Categories and Category Sets while still not creating any XMP side cars.

I'm not sure if the latter is a bug or a "feature". Since I shoot primarily with Fujifim (currently X-T5) and store only the original raw files after selected jpegs are deployed, it would be EXTREMELY helpful to bee able to rely on xnView for long term catalog archiving.

ANY thoughts or insights appreciated...thanks...gary

how to NOT have backup copies created

Settings>(General)>File operations>"Make backup for other lossless operations" not ticked.

xmp side car files, where I always thought that keywords and other metadata lived.

We can embed iptc, exif, xmp metadata in (some formats of) files, or we can write xmp metadata in sidecar files, by choosing settings


I downloaded one of your photos and made some tests. NEF photo.
Original photo : there are no xmp nor iptc fields

1) My settings :
Windows10 . XnViewMP V1.7.0
- Metadata>Edit IPTC>Options ... Mode = IPTC + update or create XMP
- Metadata>Edit XMP>Options ... Mode XMP, create or update IPTC
- Settings>Metadata>...Import and export are ticked (create xmp + create iptc also)
- Settings>Metadata>Sidecar.. "update or create XMP sidecar" not ticked.

2)Use Metadata>Edit IPTC , add a caption and a keyword. Write.
- File info : IPTC tab : caption and keyword are OK.
Empty fields are added (bug #1 ?) country code , subject reference, image type
- File info : XMP tab : description (means caption) , subject and hierarchicalSubject are OK
(here, hierarchical subject is added because export option will add a category , and categories create these hierarchical keywords)
- File info : ExifTool tab : XMP area : all the XMP fields were created (empty) (bug #2 ?) , keywords and caption are OK .
- File info : ExifTool tab : IPTC area : all the IPTC fields were created (empty) (bug #2 ?) , keywords and caption are OK
Categories : A new category is created for this keyword : OK (because of my "Export" option checked)
No bak file nor Xmp sidecar created : OK

3)Metadata>Clean .. is greyed (bug #3 ?)

I delete this photo and use again the original one.

4) I use the "Categories" pane to add a category.
- No IPTC and XMP keywords are created (bug #4)

5)Metadata >Edit XMP ... add a description and a keyword (field name is subject)
- File info : XMP tab : Description and subject OK
But, rating 0 is added (not useful) , category and hierarchical subject are missing. (bug #5 ?)
- File info : IPTC tab : IPTC metadata are missing (Bug #6)
- File info : ExifTool tab : Xmp description, subject OK. IPTC metadata are missing. (same bug)

I'll try sidecar files later ...

Merci Michel,

I will try the first recommendations and hope for some solutions to the "bugs"

gary

Just to be clear: is it actually meant to be possible to write metadata into raw files?

66nl wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 9:28 pm Again, ALL of this only seems to be an issue (for me) with Fuji RAF files.

yes, i don't understand why IPTC are not readed correctly (only by Exiftool)

Thanks for your involvement in this Pierre. It is helpful to know not to keep chasing a solution that isn’t currently available.

gary

I downloaded the files, created a copy of one, 2023_05_Acadianna_20 - Copy.RAF and did a quick test.
My setup.
XnView 1.7.2 on MX Linux 23.3 (64bit).
Under Settings/Metadata I have all options unchecked. Create Sidecar Files is unchecked.
I opened the file in XnView MP, good.
There are no IPTC or XMP tabs visible in the info panel.
I looked at the ExifTool tab and there are already entries for IPTC and XMP, Most of the fields are blank but IPTC Keywords and Caption Abstract fields have entries,and the XMP fields Description, Subject, Hierarchical Subject and XMP Toolkit fields have entries. This is before I added any metadata.
I opened the Metadata/Edit IPTC window and added some metadata. IPTC Keyword, Byline, City, State/Province, Caption(Caption-Abstract) and Caption writer(Writer-Editor). Under the options tab Mode I have checked IPTC-IIM Only. I have checked the Keep and add new values and the Keep original values boxes.
I then clicked the write button.
After writing I changed focus to another picture hit F5 and refocused on the edited image.
The Info panel is still not showing the IPTC or XMP tabs.
When I open the ExifTool tab I can see the IPTC and XMP entries. There are number of blank fields in both areas and the data I added is present in both areas? even though I selected to only write IPTC-IIM XMP is written to. No sidecar files were created.
I confirmed this using the jExifToolGui program, The IPTC information I entered is visible there as well, it is also under the XMP fields.

If I understand you correctly, you have verified that the metadata is being written to the file, but only EXiftool can see it…none of the other panels. If so, that is exactly my experience, which I think makes the fields written to the files but invisible to all but Exit Tool then unsearchable. FWIW, that metadata DOES show up in other software after written in xnViewMP in my trials.

Please correct me it I am wrong. In the mean time, thanks for helping keep the issue alive with your efforts.

Gary