File Inclusion/Exclusion

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView Classic

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:33 pm

Olivier_G wrote:...
All this being said, there is actually one issue that I find more important than all I said so far: do not use scrolling in 'options' if you can avoid it.
It is especially unconvenient when you want to change a setting or even just check it (more panels and immediate access is much better). Moreover, it tends to hide settings further away and make it less likely to be used or even seen by beginners.
I agree with your above comments (both with the ones quoted above and the ones cut off).

Pierre has tried to implement a panel with scrolling, but the way it is now is pretty useless, since the row headings ("Images", "Videos", ...) are scrolled and cannot be seen anymore. So choosing an action for a specific file group in "Open with" is very difficult. The same applies for the table. So either we have some locked area or we have to forget about scrolling. I assume that the latter is the case. With or without locked column, scrolling is really not the best choice. Think we have to go for the two page szenario...
Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:Sorry for the a bit harsh tone.
No problem at all, Helmut... I love to "wrestle" together like this...
Good to hear. :-)

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:02 am

A bit busy now, sorry I didn't read all your new posts, just again:
Dreamer wrote:I don't care if we will use Olivier's or Pierre's solution, Pierre's looks a bit better, but with Olivier's last suggestions (4 columns, list/show/hide in 1st).

Minor - we will need also action "show" for folders (and later also for archives maybe).

Another minor thing - "[cus,tom ] files" still missing. :wink:

We could add also some options from this topic maybe...

Use cache - for Thumbnail view/Other views?, Preview and View/FS mode
Use high quality - for Thumbnail view, Preview and View/FS mode

Use delayed high quality for images larger than... - for Preview and View/FS mode
Dreamer wrote:I think we have to decide first, if we want one page for:

- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode, Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)

...or 2 pages:

- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode
- Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)

I think only second option is possible without scrolling, we could add more options to the first page (more above) and we will need also more space for custom program path (for "Edit with" column).
I hate horizontal scrolling, I think 2 pages would be clear and we can add more options there (more above).

What do you think about my suggestions?

Pierre, what about "Edit with (F4/Shift+LMB)" custom program for each category (images/video/audio...), do you want to implement it? (There was a Winzip and Winrar in one screenshot, therefore I ask).

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:05 am

Dreamer wrote:...I hate horizontal scrolling, I think 2 pages would be clear and we can add more options there (more above).

What do you think about my suggestions?
The scrolling solution is very unlikely, since the row headings (file types) are scroll away (see above).
Dreamer wrote:Pierre, what about "Edit with (F4/Shift+LMB)" custom program for each category (images/video/audio...), do you want to implement it? (There was a Winzip and Winrar in one screenshot, therefore I ask).
Not in this release, please. Currently we are struggling to get a solution for some options, we shouldn't put the bar even higher.

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Post by Dreamer » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:32 pm

helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Pierre, what about "Edit with (F4/Shift+LMB)" custom program for each category (images/video/audio...), do you want to implement it? (There was a Winzip and Winrar in one screenshot from Pierre, therefore I ask).
Not in this release, please. Currently we are struggling to get a solution for some options, we shouldn't put the bar even higher.
Reason why I asked is above. I think it's important to know if Pierre will implement "Edit with" or even "Open with Ctrl" options (sooner or later), since we'd definitely need 2 pages then (2nd for Open/Open Ctrl/Edit with and field for custom program). I think "Open with" and "Edit with" should be on one page.

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Post by Olivier_G » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:09 am

I guess we can agree on the two pages scenario... :D
helmut wrote:With or without locked column, scrolling is really not the best choice. Think we have to go for the two page scenario...
Dreamer wrote:I hate horizontal scrolling, I think 2 pages would be clear and we can add more options there
Olivier_G wrote:It makes a lot of sense, with a different window for detailled 'Open' actions as suggested by Dreamer.
About the 'File Handling' page, I think we agreed so far only on 'Other Views' and 'Preview'.

For 'Navigation/View/Fullscreen', Helmut raised a valid issue and I believe that implementing a new column for this setting should be discussed later (ie: another thread, for a future release, etc...). If you want this feature, you will have to come with a strong suggestion to seduce Helmut (I will try...:mrgreen:)

For 'Thumbnail view', the debate is still open between:
- Helmut's suggestion with separate columns for 'Item in Thumbnails view' and 'Show as Thumbnail' in order to get 'Thumbnails view' and 'Other views' closer.
- My suggestion for a single column for 'Thumbnails view' with droplists (Show/List/Hide).
I tried to gather the following 'hints' from the most recent feedbacks:
xnview wrote:A better solution must be found for Thumbnail view/Create (merge into one column).
Dreamer wrote:I don't care if we will use Olivier's or Pierre's solution, Pierre's looks a bit better, but with Olivier's last suggestions (4 columns, list/show/hide in 1st).
=> Should we settle on the single column 'Thumbnail view' with droplists? (other opinions are welcome)

helmut wrote:Currently we are struggling to get a solution for some options, we shouldn't put the bar even higher.
I agree that we should limit our suggestions.
To Dreamer:
- I think that 'cache'/'high quality'/'delay HQ' should not belong to this 'handling' window
- As you said, we should probably start a new thread for the 'Open actions' window... even if it is not implemented in the very next release (or just 'Open'): Pierre will decide on what he wants to implement depending on time.

After agreeing on all that, 'custom include/exclude' should be a piece of cake... :D

Olivier
PS: is this the longest thread ever :mrgreen: ?

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:11 pm

Thank you Olivier for summarizing the previous posts and aspects. :-)
Olivier_G wrote:I guess we can agree on the two pages scenario... :D
...
Absolutely.
Olivier_G wrote:For 'Navigation/View/Fullscreen', Helmut raised a valid issue and I believe that implementing a new column for this setting should be discussed later (ie: another thread, for a future release, etc...). If you want this feature, you will have to come with a strong suggestion to seduce Helmut (I will try...:mrgreen:)
I'm pretty seduced, already :wink:. Pierre is about implementing the file list and now the question is: Which of the two settings should be used for navigation: "Thumbnail view" or "All other views". And I think the "Viewer-only users" will desperetaly look for a place to set the file list and exclusions. So I think to fulfill expectations and needs of both "browser users" and "viewer-only users", there should be a configurable file list which defaults to "Same as Thumbnail view in browser" but can be configured independantly if needed.
Olivier_G wrote:For 'Thumbnail view', the debate is still open between:
- Helmut's suggestion with separate columns for 'Item in Thumbnails view' and 'Show as Thumbnail' in order to get 'Thumbnails view' and 'Other views' closer.
- My suggestion for a single column for 'Thumbnails view' with droplists (Show/List/Hide).
I tried to gather the following 'hints' from the most recent feedbacks:
xnview wrote:A better solution must be found for Thumbnail view/Create (merge into one column).
Dreamer wrote:I don't care if we will use Olivier's or Pierre's solution, Pierre's looks a bit better, but with Olivier's last suggestions (4 columns, list/show/hide in 1st).
=> Should we settle on the single column 'Thumbnail view' with droplists? (other opinions are welcome)
The dropdownlist approach is not too bad, but I think it's irritating if you have a dropdownlist for one setting and checkboxes for all other.
Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:Currently we are struggling to get a solution for some options, we shouldn't put the bar even higher.
I agree that we should limit our suggestions.
Good. Will make discussions easier.
Olivier_G wrote:To Dreamer:
- I think that 'cache'/'high quality'/'delay HQ' should not belong to this 'handling' window
I agree, caching is something different, we have file list settings which will fill the whole page, already.
Olivier_G wrote:- As you said, we should probably start a new thread for the 'Open actions' window... even if it is not implemented in the very next release (or just 'Open'): Pierre will decide on what he wants to implement depending on time.
There is another very related topic "Open all non image files in associated program", already, but it's pretty idle at the moment. I think we should try to finish this discussion and then have a look at the other one.
Olivier_G wrote:After agreeing on all that, 'custom include/exclude' should be a piece of cake... :D
An Obelix piece :-)
Olivier_G wrote:PS: is this the longest thread ever :mrgreen: ?
Wow, you are right. I thought topic "Iconset for XnView 1.75" was still the longest, but as I can see that's history, now.

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:21 pm

OK, I agree. :)

So this is the last one?
The dropdownlist approach is not too bad, but I think it's irritating if you have a dropdownlist for one setting and checkboxes for all other.
Right, but too many checkboxes too...

I don't know, here is another idea, with 3 columns, but maybe less confusing:

Code: Select all

hide | list | show
 (o) | ( )  | ( )
 ( ) | (o)  | ( )
 ( ) | ( )  | (o)

raga
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Post by raga » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:34 am

Olivier_G wrote: For 'Thumbnail view', the debate is still open between:
- Helmut's suggestion with separate columns for 'Item in Thumbnails view' and 'Show as Thumbnail' in order to get 'Thumbnails view' and 'Other views' closer.
- My suggestion for a single column for 'Thumbnails view' with droplists (Show/List/Hide).
Maybe a third possibility could be this:
Only one column with a checkbox 'Show as Thumbnail'.

And somewhere else a global option to decide about all the other files, where this checkbox is not checked.
Something like this:

In thumbnail mode
(x) Hide all other files
( ) List all other files like in simple browser modes

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Post by Dreamer » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:46 pm

raga wrote:Maybe a third possibility could be this:
Only one column with a checkbox 'Show as Thumbnail'.

And somewhere else a global option to decide about all the other files, where this checkbox is not checked.
Something like this:

In thumbnail mode
(x) Hide all other files
( ) List all other files like in simple browser modes
But we need 3 options for all filetypes - hide/list/show.
Last edited by Dreamer on Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:49 pm

Dreamer wrote:...
The dropdownlist approach is not too bad, but I think it's irritating if you have a dropdownlist for one setting and checkboxes for all other.
Right, but too many checkboxes too...

I don't know, here is another idea, with 3 columns, but maybe less confusing:

Code: Select all

hide | list | show
 (o) | ( )  | ( )
 ( ) | (o)  | ( )
 ( ) | ( )  | (o)
I doubt that his will work out well. The problem is that you have even more columns and the heading "Hide/List/Show" will also "eat up" space of the dialog.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:52 pm

Dreamer wrote:
raga wrote:Maybe a third possibility could be this:
Only one column with a checkbox 'Show as Thumbnail'.

And somewhere else a global option to decide about all the other files, where this checkbox is not checked.
Something like this:

In thumbnail mode
(x) Hide all other files
( ) List all other files like in simple browser modes
But we need 3 options for all filetypes - hide/list/show.
Right. I think raga means one cental setting which controls what happens to those files which are not shown as thumbnails, they are a.) either hidden or b.) listed as normal items. This is a good idea, but this would limit the functionality of the options a bit. Also it might not be obvious to the user that this is a central setting which refers to another setting.

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Post by Dreamer » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:53 pm

Helmut, Olivier, what do you think about my last suggestion (above)?

Another advantages of that solution:
- similar look as checkboxes
- just one click needed to change/switch (both other solutions need 2 clicks)
helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:...I don't know, here is another idea, with 3 columns, but maybe less confusing:

Code: Select all

hide | list | show
 (o) | ( )  | ( )
 ( ) | (o)  | ( )
 ( ) | ( )  | (o)
I doubt that his will work out well. The problem is that you have even more columns and the heading "Hide/List/Show" will also "eat up" space of the dialog.
But we will move "Open with" to another page so there would be enough space there...

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Post by Olivier_G » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:13 pm

Dreamer wrote:Helmut, Olivier, what do you think about my last suggestion (above)?
I don't particularly like it because it requires more space (might be needed for translations, or later on...), doesn't follow exactly the same logic as other columns although looking similar (I guess some people might be confused...). :?
...and I am not sure that 'speed of use' is that important for setting options.

Olivier

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