File Inclusion/Exclusion

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView Classic

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helmut
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Re: Ignore list style

Post by helmut » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:32 pm

marsh wrote:
helmut wrote: - Style of exclusion list
Perhaps the file extensions could be separated by a comma and use lower case (case will be ignored, by MS Windows anyway), this would increase readability a bit. I.e. "PDF PS AI EPS" would be come "pdf, ps, ai, eps".
Should it be a single line, horizontal input box? This would allow copy/paste into it.
Yes, a single line edit text. The edittext won't be very large, though, and you will need scrolling if you have more entries.
marsh wrote:
helmut wrote: Group "PDF"
The group "PDF" should still be discussed, since this group would contain "PDF", only. And there's EPS, and .PS which have to be handled like PDF and should be in the same group. Perhaps it's better to have listed them in group "Custom".
But then exlcude list would be empty by default. I think it should have something in it as an example. An example could be next to option name if there is room (pdf, eps, etc)
That's true, but isn't the Custom list an example, already? Custom group is a single line edit text.
marsh wrote:
xnview wrote: So perhaps only list for thumbnail creation & view picture (view mode + preview)??
Other than testing, I cannot think of any advantages to seperating view/preview. The same for seperating thumbnails and view- when do they ever need to be different?
First, we all have to understand what the three columns "View mode", "Preview" and "Thumbnails" mean:
These options are filtering files out of a list. The list is the list of thumbnails, the list of files shown in the preview, or the list that is used when navigating in image mode (not: when opening an image).

Instead of "View mode" this might be named something like "Image navigation", "Navigation", "Image to Image", or similar.

The order of the columns should be the other way round: Thumbnails, Preview, Image navigation. (Browser comes first).

For most users, this action will be the same in all modes. But there might be special cases where different handling is needed. The options listed by Dreamer that are all exclusions actually show that there is a need for fine tuning.

We have one entry "Custom", I wonder whether there should be two (or more) entries "Custom 1", "Custom 2". This way you could create fine-tuned exclusions. (It's getting a bit more complicated, again).

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Re: Ignore list style

Post by marsh » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:50 pm

helmut wrote: Instead of "View mode" this might be named something like "Image navigation", "Navigation", "Image to Image", or similar.
Navigation>'Thumbnail' and Navigation>'List, Icons, Details'- each with check boxes & exclude box underneath?

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:00 am

helmut wrote:

Code: Select all

                      View mode  Preview         Thumbnail mode
Files larger than     [1024]     [1024]          [10]
                      
Images                [ ]        [ ]             [ ]
Audio files           [x]        [x]             [ ]
Video files           [x]        [x]             [x]
TXT files             [x]        [x]             [x]
Custom [PDF, EPS, ..] [x]        [x]             [x]
All other files       [x]        [x]             [x]
                             
[ ] Use same setting for all modes
OK, I agree, just few improvements (PDF...)

Code: Select all

                      View mode  Preview         Thumbnail mode
Files larger than     [1024]     [1024]          [10]
                      
Images                [ ]        [ ]             [ ]
Audio files           [x]        [x]             [ ]
Video files           [x]        [x]             [x]
TXT & HTM? files      [x]        [x]             [x]
PDF, EPS, & PS files  [x]        [x]             [x]
Custom [   ]          [x]        [x]             [x]
All other files       [x]        [x]             [x]
                             
[ ] Use same setting for all modes
We have one entry "Custom", I wonder whether there should be two (or more) entries "Custom 1", "Custom 2". This way you could create fine-tuned exclusions. (It's getting a bit more complicated, again).
What about my "Special page" option? This is just for normal users, "Special page" would be for adv. users...
Yes perhaps a good way. But perhaps we can merge this setting http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?p=17027 with "ignore list"?
I think both these options should be in its own sub-category of the same main category. There could be also other options in this "main category" - Associations? ...

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:07 pm

Dreamer wrote:...
OK, I agree, just few improvements (PDF...)

Code: Select all

                      View mode  Preview         Thumbnail mode
Files larger than     [1024]     [1024]          [10]
                      
Images                [ ]        [ ]             [ ]
Audio files           [x]        [x]             [ ]
Video files           [x]        [x]             [x]
TXT & HTM? files      [x]        [x]             [x]
PDF, EPS, & PS files  [x]        [x]             [x]
Custom [   ]          [x]        [x]             [x]
All other files       [x]        [x]             [x]
                             
[ ] Use same setting for all modes
Hmm, perhaps we can find a name for the "PDF, EPS, PS" group. Or list them in "Custom".
Dreamer wrote:
We have one entry "Custom", I wonder whether there should be two (or more) entries "Custom 1", "Custom 2". This way you could create fine-tuned exclusions. (It's getting a bit more complicated, again).
What about my "Special page" option? This is just for normal users, "Special page" would be for adv. users...
Yes perhaps a good way. But perhaps we can merge this setting http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?p=17027 with "ignore list"?
I think both these options should be in its own sub-category of the same main category. There could be also other options in this "main category" - Associations? ...
The two settings are related with one you set the filter, the other one sets the action when opening files. "Filter" is a more or less general setting which affects Browser and Views (Image view, Fullscreen), whereas "Open action" is for Browser, only. So even if they are related I think the main categories will be different or a new main category ("Behaviour" ?) must be created. I'd prefer to keep the current categories and have a main category "Filter" and "Browser > Open action".
But compared to the design of options themselves this is just a minor detail.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:18 am

An addition:

In the File List for Browser of XnView 1.80 (Options, category "Browser > File List", you can set two filters:

- Items shown in Thumbnail mode
- Items shown in all other modes

If I understand right, the Filter setting we are talking about will replace these settings. With our current approach we will loose this, I think another column is needed.

At the moment I'm not clear what our "Thumbnail" column really does:
A - Does it fully filter the file and not show it
or
B - Does it only say for which file thumbnails should be displayed and for which ones not

I think for both settings are needed and thus must be considered in the current design.

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Post by xnview » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:22 am

helmut wrote:An addition:

In the File List for Browser of XnView 1.80 (Options, category "Browser > File List", you can set two filters:

- Items shown in Thumbnail mode
- Items shown in all other modes

If I understand right, the Filter setting we are talking about will replace these settings. With our current approach we will loose this, I think another column is needed.
No Filter is not for that...
At the moment I'm not clear what our "Thumbnail" column really does:
A - Does it fully filter the file and not show it
or
B - Does it only say for which file thumbnails should be displayed and for which ones not

I think for both settings are needed and thus must be considered in the current design.
B
Pierre.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:21 pm

Until very recently, I was not clear what the options discussed above were meaning in detail.

From my point of view, the settings which files are displayed and the settings for showing thumbnails and showing preview, really belong together. With these settings the user controls how XnView should handle these file types.

#H01 With this in mind I have made a design:
Image

Some explanations why it looks like this and how it is supposed to work:

The first line is our know exclusion (similar to above drafts). The group "Custom" is a customizable group, as you can see it can be customized at the bottom of the page.

For each group (Custom, Images, Videos, ...) you have three settings, which decide whether a file is
Column 1. shown in the file list at all
Column 2. shown as thumbnail (if applicable)
Column 3. shown in Preview (if applicable)
When user deactivates "Show entry", the columns 2 and 3 become inactive since an invisible entry can never be shown.

By default, all files are included and listed in XnView.

I think this is pretty clear.

- Making an exclusion
The difficult part might be to understand how to exclude a specific file type. You simply enter the file type in the field "*Custom" and deactivate "Show entry" for the group "Custom". The setting in Custom will override all other settings.

- Several groups "Custom"
Since exclusion might be on different levels ("Not shown at all" or "Show as entry, but not as thumbnail"), there might be two groups "Custom".

- Special filter for "Detail view"
Until now, we have a filter for "Detail view" and for all other views. In the above approach there is only one column for both views. Is there a real need to have different lists for "Details view"?

- Filter for "View"?
A long time ago we had a file list (=filter) for browser and a file list for image view. For most people this was very confusing and the file list for image view was removed. In XnView 1.80 the file list for browser and file list for image view are simply the same. I think that this should remain like this.

- Open action
As Dreamer has mentioned, the topic Open all non image files in associated program is very related. Here, the user also controls what happens with his/her files when opening. One is tempted to add a column "Open action" in the above dialog, but I think this would make it too complicated. Perhaps it's better to become clear and agree on the settings and the rough design of the dialog, first, and we can see what to do with the settings for "Open action".

Pretty difficult topic, here...
Last edited by helmut on Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dreamer » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:27 pm

helmut wrote:Pretty difficult topic, here...
110% agree. :P

I already said, we have several similar options and we must find a way to implement/change it so that it will be clear and usable...

Anyone else wants to help? :wink:

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Post by marsh » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:14 am

It seems the original question has expanded a bit.
Last edited by marsh on Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by xnview » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:13 pm

If we merge Browser/File List & Filter, we can have something like that:
Image
What do you think?
Pierre.

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Post by marsh » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:20 pm

Yes, but perhaps custom should be named "exclude"? Or use a word like that in the label next to "*custom" -Ex: Ignore extensions seperated by ....
I understand it, at last. :)

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Post by xnview » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:02 pm

marsh wrote:Yes, but perhaps custom should be named "exclude"? Or use a word like that in the label next to "*custom" -Ex: Ignore extensions seperated by ....
I understand it, at last. :)
Yes right!
Pierre.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:15 pm

marsh wrote:Yes, but perhaps custom should be named "exclude"? Or use a word like that in the label next to "*custom" -Ex: Ignore extensions seperated by ....
I understand it, at last. :)
No, "Exclude" for group "Custom" would be wrong. "Custom" means that this group is a custom group, you can set which filetypes belong to it. By setting the appropriate checkboxes, "Custom" can be used for inclusions, but also for exclusions.

I've changed the subject of this topic, since we do not talk about an "Ignore list" any longer, but about displaying and handling of file types in general.

I think Pierre's screenshot is a bit misleading; with his settings no files will be shown in XnView at all. An active checkbox means that the appropriate group is shown, an inactive checkbox means that it is not shown.

#H02: Here's a more typical setting:
Image
Last edited by helmut on Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by xnview » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:30 pm

helmut wrote:
marsh wrote:Yes, but perhaps custom should be named "exclude"? Or use a word like that in the label next to "*custom" -Ex: Ignore extensions seperated by ....
I understand it, at last. :)
No, "Exclude" for group "Custom" would be wrong. "Custom" means that this group is a custom group, you can set which filetypes belong to it. By setting the appropriate checkboxes, "Custom" can be used for inclusions, but also for exclusions.
Hum, really i think that extension to exclude is better than custom file extension to show...
Pierre.

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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:34 pm

xnview wrote:...
Hum, really i think that extension to exclude is better than custom file extension to show...
If you name the group "Custom" "Exclude", the name would no longer express that the group is customizable, and you can use "Exclude" to actually include files. That would be really irritating.
Don't think in terms of "Exclude" or "Ignore", try to think in terms of groups and files that are displayed and/or shown as thumbnail / preview. This is basically what we have now, see options, category "Browser > File List" (Item shown in Thumbnail mode / Item shown in other modes).

Let's see what other people think about this.

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