File Inclusion/Exclusion

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView Classic

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:18 am

Olivier,

it's very nice, I like it :)

Just minor, "Navigate: View" is a bit confusing... I suggest "View and Fullscreen mode" or "Fullscreen/View mode".
Olivier_G wrote:Maybe 'Text files' and 'pdf,eps,pd files' should be gathered under a single item 'Document files' (which may include doc, xls, ppt... in the future if someone request that), as this level of detail is probably not needed in an Image Viewer program.
No, PDF are also images, there are no thumbnails for TXT files and PDF files are "slow" (thumbnails/preview creation).
Olivier_G wrote:In "Navigate": 'Folders' and 'Parent folder' should be available (if checked, it would show the generic icon, and double-click/Enter would select it -> you would be able to move within folders while staying in View mode)
Yes, I wanted to suggest this too, but Enter and double click would not work then. But I think it's not as important, there are other keys (F11, MMB, context menu, ctrl+B...) and it could be disabled, so I support this request!

I have another idea, new page for "open with" options, then we could add also "fullscreen column", I'll start a new topic later.

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Post by xnview » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:27 pm

Perhaps i found a better solution to show items.
Image
You can have action for open by default, with CTRL, ALT.
What do you think?
A better solution must be found for Thumbnail view/Create (merge into one column).
Pierre.

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Post by helmut » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:43 pm

xnview wrote:Perhaps i found a better solution to show items.
Image
You can have action for open by default, with CTRL, ALT.
What do you think?
A better solution must be found for Thumbnail view/Create (merge into one column).
If I get you right you would have the above table in the options page using scrolling. I like the idea (it's basically what we have been discussing in the previous posts) but until now limited screen space was the problem. Scrolling would solve this.

I think at first we should have a simple solution and not make things even more flexible and even more complicated. Ctrl + Open should be discussed later or even developed later. The same applies for "Open action", I think at first the settings "Associated program" and "XnView Viewer" should be sufficient (no additional programs).

I think the order of the columns should be:
1 - Show item in thumbnail view
2 - Show item in all other views
3 - Show thumbnail
4 - Open action
(I'm using comparatively long column names to make things in this discussion clear).

Also I wonder whether people should see that a table control is used. Instead, the background could be grey and the grid invisible (not sure about this one).

I'm not clear what column "Fullscreen" is good for.

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Post by Olivier_G » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:33 pm

helmut wrote:3 - Show thumbnail
Do you mean: 3 - Show Preview?
helmut wrote:I'm not clear what column "Fullscreen" is good for.
Wasn't the following messages already an answer to support this column "Fullscreen"/"Viewer"/"Navigation" (depending on the naming):
helmut wrote:
Olivier_G wrote:An example: "I want to open a video/audio in XnView from Browser, but I don't want to run videos/audios while navigating in view mode"
'Open with' is related to 'Navigation', but like you I think it should be settable independantly.
Olivier

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Post by Olivier_G » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:00 pm

xnview wrote:Perhaps i found a better solution to show items.

Image

What do you think?
I am impressed by this solution: it offers a lot of possibilities...
...however if a simpler solution/interface could be used, it would be better (and this is what I tried so far) especially to avoid too much scrolling.
-> Question: would it be possible that the head-line's heigth adjusts with automatic word-wrap on several lines, so that one could adjust freely columns' width while still seeing the title?
Example:

Code: Select all

 |Thumbnail|        instead of      | Thumbnail view |
 |  view   | 
If it is possible AND widths could be remembered... then I would think that your solution could be the all-in-one answer... :mrgreen:
xnview wrote:A better solution must be found for Thumbnail view/Create (merge into one column).
What about my latest suggestion with a single 'Thumbnail View' column with the droplist 'Show/List/Hide'?

Olivier

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Post by Dreamer » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:01 am

It's too wide, I don't like scrolling...

I'd prefer to split Open action and add new action - Edit:

Open action | Alt. Open action (Ctrl+/F3) | Edit action (Shift+/F4)

...with options: XnView / Default / Custom (with ability to type path and file-exe)

Open action would be standard action
Alt. Open action (Ctrl+/F3) would be alt. action, same as in file managers
Edit action (Shift+/F4) would be edit action, same as in file managers

I'm not sure if "Alt. Open action" is really needed, I'd just like to have same action for F4 as in my file manager.

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Post by Olivier_G » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:52 am

OK... I think I agree with Dreamer: 'Open' is probably the weakest item in my previous suggestion... as it is not really handled by XnView. It would even be worse with more 'Open' actions.

I was worried that translations would not fit easily (therefore my interest in Pierre's new proposal). However, if you remove 'Open with program' column, you now get plenty of space:

Image

It makes a lot of sense, with a different window for detailled 'Open' actions as suggested by Dreamer.

Olivier
PS: you could consider separate settings for 'View' and 'Fullscreen', but someone will have to explain why it would be useful :?:

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Post by Dreamer » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:16 pm

I don't care if we will use Olivier's or Pierre's solution, Pierre's looks a bit better, but with Olivier's last suggestions (4 columns, list/show/hide in 1st).

Minor - we will need also action "show" for folders (and later also for archives maybe).

Another minor thing - "[cus,tom ] files" still missing. :wink:

We could add also some options from this topic maybe...

Use cache - for Thumbnail view/Other views?, Preview and View/FS mode
Use high quality - for Thumbnail view, Preview and View/FS mode

Use delayed high quality for images larger than... - for Preview and View/FS mode

I think we should start a new topic for "Open with / Edit with page", Olivier, you could try to do something as nice as here. :wink:
Last edited by Dreamer on Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by helmut » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:46 pm

Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:3 - Show thumbnail
Do you mean: 3 - Show Preview?
"Show Thumbnail" determines whether the file/item is shown as thumbnail or just as normal item. But you're right, in my list the "Show preview" is missing.

1 - Show item in thumbnail view
2 - Show item in all other views
3 - Show thumbnail
4 - Show preview
5 - Open action

I think in your draft the columns 1 & 3 are combined in column "Thumbnail view".
(Five columns will be too much for one page without scrolling, I think.)
helmut wrote:I'm not clear what column "Fullscreen" is good for.
Wasn't the following messages already an answer to support this column "Fullscreen"/"Viewer"/"Navigation" (depending on the naming):
helmut wrote:
Olivier_G wrote:An example: "I want to open a video/audio in XnView from Browser, but I don't want to run videos/audios while navigating in view mode"
'Open with' is related to 'Navigation', but like you I think it should be settable independantly.
I thought it was clearly said that list for Navigation and Browser will be exactly the same. Copied from above: It's true, at some stage there was the idea to have a filter that affects navigation (Previous/Next image) in View mode. But some XnView versions ago, we had different file lists for browser and viewer and it was very confusing. This should not be re-introduced.

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Post by Dreamer » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:16 pm

I think we have to decide first, if we want one page for:

- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode, Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)

...or 2 pages:

- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode
- Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)

I think only second option is possible without scrolling, we could add more options to the first page (more above) and we will need also more space for custom program path (for "Edit with" column).

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Post by Olivier_G » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:55 pm

helmut wrote:I think in your draft the columns 1 & 3 are combined in column "Thumbnail view".
Yes. What do you think about this suggestion?
helmut wrote:I thought it was clearly said that list for Navigation and Browser will be exactly the same.
I probably did not understand it correctly... sorry.
What is exactly "Browser"? Would it depend whether you are in 'Thumbnail view' or in a different view, like their according settings?
helmut wrote:But some XnView versions ago, we had different file lists for browser and viewer and it was very confusing. This should not be re-introduced.
I agree that default settings should match somehow between 'Browser'(?) and 'Viewer' to avoid this confusion... but I think that the possibility to set them differently would be very interesting (for example: I always show Video files Thumbnails in the Browser but don't want to see them while navigating in the View/Fullscreen. I don't think this is an uncommon behaviour, especially for photographers who mix photos and videos in a same event folder).

Olivier

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Post by xnview » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:48 am

Dreamer wrote:I think we have to decide first, if we want one page for:
Yes :-)
- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode, Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)
My solution with scrollbar
...or 2 pages:
- Thumbnail view, Other views, Preview, View/FS mode
- Open with, Edit with (and/or Open with CTRL)
Olivier's solution
So please tell me before i start this panel?

(Thumbnail view is for thumbnail view thumbnail & create)
And i think that navigation is better, because this setting is used only when navigating in fullscreen.
Pierre.

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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:43 pm

I've taken Olivier and some of my old drafts and created a new one:

#H07
Image

You possibly noticed that the options dialog is wider. Pierre indicated that scrolling a panel would be also possible; in the real implemenation the options dialog would have the same size as before and there would be horizontal scrollbars for this panel. So just like the scrolling table suggested by Pierre, but the panel has the advantage that controls can be placed at any location, table is limited to the grid.

To make the horizontal scrollbar and all the stuff in the above page fit on the options dialog, the options dialog has to be enlarged vertically a bit.

The columns are similar to Oliviers draft, I think these options are sufficient for most cases. Later we could still add more.

Please note that with columns "Item in view thumbnail" and "Show as thumbnail" (column 1 & 3 above), Olivier and I have different approaches. I think that the "Thumbnail view" and "All other views" have to be close together so that people understand what the "other" refers to.

I'm not 100% happy with the column headings so I've made another draft with more verbose headings. Doesn't look that nice but it's perhaps clearer.

#H08
Image

In the above drafts the group "PDF, EPS, PS" has to be added, I think. So the dialog will become even larger :-|
Last edited by helmut on Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by helmut » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:55 pm

Hello Olivier,

thanks for your comments and drafts in this difficult topic.
Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:I think in your draft the columns 1 & 3 are combined in column "Thumbnail view".
Yes. What do you think about this suggestion?
It's a good idea, but I think "Thumbnail view" and "All other views" have to be close together so that people understand what "All other" refers to. (see comment above)
Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:I thought it was clearly said that list for Navigation and Browser will be exactly the same.
I probably did not understand it correctly... sorry.
What is exactly "Browser"? Would it depend whether you are in 'Thumbnail view' or in a different view, like their according settings?
Sorry for the a bit harsh tone. The settings "Navigation/View" would allow for creating a filter different to the filter in the browser. As we know by now, the filters are nothing else than our current file lists. Some XnView versions ago, we had a file list for the browser and we had a seperate file list for the view made. This meant that in browser you have seen files A, C, E, and when navigating in viewer you navigated over files B, D, E. And people were completely confused and kept asking: "Why are my files not shown". So we decided to have only one file lists for browser and viewer. And I think we shouldn't change this unless there are really good reasons.
Olivier_G wrote:
helmut wrote:But some XnView versions ago, we had different file lists for browser and viewer and it was very confusing. This should not be re-introduced.
I agree that default settings should match somehow between 'Browser'(?) and 'Viewer' to avoid this confusion... but I think that the possibility to set them differently would be very interesting (for example: I always show Video files Thumbnails in the Browser but don't want to see them while navigating in the View/Fullscreen. I don't think this is an uncommon behaviour, especially for photographers who mix photos and videos in a same event folder).
Hmm, perhaps right. But I think here I'd rather have a bit of a limitation than the above described confusion.

At this point the "Reset to default" button suggested by Dreamer comes back to my mind. But for now I won't change the above drafts.

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Post by Olivier_G » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:25 am

Some comments after looking carefully(and again) at my latest suggestion and Helmut's H07/H08:
helmut wrote:I think "Thumbnail view" and "All other views" have to be close together so that people understand what "All other" refers to. (see comment above)
I see your point... although I don't think that this is a real problem (I find titles to be self-explanatory and layout logical enough). Different opinion, I guess... :P
-> It would be interesting to get more opinions from other people (this being said, I dont think that it is a major issue... and both suggestions are good enough for me).
helmut wrote:This meant that in browser you have seen files A, C, E, and when navigating in viewer you navigated over files B, D, E. And people were completely confused and kept asking: "Why are my files not shown".
OK, I see how some people could be confused. And this might happen again if they don't understand those settings or forget about the logic later on.
Olivier_G wrote:I think that the possibility to set them differently would be very interesting (for example: I always show Video files Thumbnails in the Browser but don't want to see them while navigating in the View/Fullscreen)
So... as this behaviour might be confusing for 'Beginners' but usefull for 'Experts'... why not consider it as an extra INI setting?
(I consider this solution as 'better than nothing'... and I would much prefer to see it as a normal setting in this 'handling' panel. Again: different opinion... and again: more feedback would be interesting)

All this being said, there is actually one issue that I find more important than all I said so far: do not use scrolling in 'options' if you can avoid it.
It is especially unconvenient when you want to change a setting or even just check it (more panels and immediate access is much better). Moreover, it tends to hide settings further away and make it less likely to be used or even seen by beginners.

Olivier
helmut wrote:Sorry for the a bit harsh tone.
No problem at all, Helmut... I love to "wrestle" together like this... :mrgreen:

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