Useless preview for Effects & Filter

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Irving
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Useless preview for Effects & Filter

Post by Irving » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:14 pm

<Moderator's note: This topic has been split from another topic>
Drahken wrote:Considering how much personal info they want, and the fact that most of us will never go to zdnet again, it's a major hassle just to vote for one program.
Cnet/zdnet is a royal pain to navigate and takes 20 steps to download the prog after you've finally found what you want, it's not a worthwhile site.
Agreed.

And lets tell the truth, boys and girls: 1.80 is a serious step backwards. What's with the dialog boxes for adjusting gamma, brightness, etc??? Used to be you could see the changes, but now a box with postage stamp sized previews covers up your image. It's breathtakingly illogical. I never use Irfanview because of its dinky preview size, and now all of a sudden XnView is the same?!?

I cannot recommend XnView any longer. If I went through the trouble of going to ZDnet, I'd in all conscience give it a thumbs down. :x

Even though it had its faults, 1.74 is the last decent XnView program.

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Clo
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Hide is good

Post by Clo » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:56 pm

:) Hello !
…but now a box with postage stamp sized previews covers up your image. It's breathtakingly illogical. …
- This is true. And it's the same mess for the new "Filters" —>"Effects" dialogue-box; I don't like these "Previews" at all.
• However, I guess that a ckeck-box to show / hide them could do the trick, before to put XnView in the dustbin… :P

:mrgreen: Kind regards,
Claude
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Irving
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don't get me wrong....

Post by Irving » Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:24 pm

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to throw XnView in the "trash", no way, (which is why I'm still going to hold onto 1.74), but I can't recommend it to others any longer. The most useful features are now corrupted beyond reasonable use, that's all.

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Clo
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1/2 joke…

Post by Clo » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:47 am

:D Hi again !

- Indeed, I got your point of view alright… Talking of the dustbin is a “half-joke”.

- As a tester (not only here…), I'm bound to use the current version, and think to what could be improved first among the most “crappy” new features…
- For these ones, I'ld bet that a solution could be applied, like it's already requested in that thread. Hope feeds the life… :wink:

:mrgreen: Kind regards,
Claude
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Re: don't get me wrong....

Post by xnview » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:56 am

Irving wrote:Don't get me wrong. I don't want to throw XnView in the "trash", no way, (which is why I'm still going to hold onto 1.74), but I can't recommend it to others any longer. The most useful features are now corrupted beyond reasonable use, that's all.
Why preview is a problem? I think that it's a good way to see change quickly...
Pierre.

Irving
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Re: don't get me wrong....

Post by Irving » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:53 pm

xnview wrote:
Irving wrote:Don't get me wrong. I don't want to throw XnView in the "trash", no way, (which is why I'm still going to hold onto 1.74), but I can't recommend it to others any longer. The most useful features are now corrupted beyond reasonable use, that's all.
Why preview is a problem? I think that it's a good way to see change quickly...
Like I said, why would I want my image I'm seeing being changed in real time (with "Auto View" on) to be blocked with a dinky box with a Before and After you'd need a magnifying glass for? Think about it - especially for something as critical as RGB values, you need to see as much of the overall image as you can get, and there's no possible way you can make an evaluation of changes in a preview that's, what, 100 pixels square? :wink:

If anything, it would be more helpful if this dialog box were smaller. (and for it to reset to zero when you close it, hint hint hint hint hint again).

Image

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Clo
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More boring than useful

Post by Clo » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:22 pm

:arrow: Pierre

:) Hello Pierre !
…I think that is a good way to see change quickly…
• Sorry, not at all in the most cases. Except if you have a huge monitor (or two synchronized ones, that I've not), the new "Previews" hide the 1/1 scale pic on the display area, especially when the pics are small, and I work mainly with small / medium sizes pics…
- Like Irving shows above, the old dialogues can be moved enough to see the pic under them, while often the new ones can't.
- The “Zero” button was set temporarily ages ago AFAIR, but it's there still. I support the Irving's wish for an auto-reset to the “Zero” when the box is closed / reopen.

- It's the same mess for the Filters >> Effects new dialogues.
- Please, could you consider the request for an option I linked above ?

:mrgreen: Kind regards,
Claude
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Re: don't get me wrong....

Post by Olivier_G » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:24 pm

xnview wrote:I think that it's a good way to see change quickly...
And I agree with Pierre. In particular, I like:
- The ultra-fast preview, to get an immediate idea (too slow directly on large images)
- The Before/After previews to see the change
- The updated image slightly delayed, to see the effect in detail

I also like the fact that I can apply easily the same settings to a serie of pictures -> no auto-reset.

Olivier

Irving
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Post by Irving » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:35 pm

You're actually able to make out critical changes in those little bitty boxes? :D

And as for resetting the box, there are so many variations in images, especially gamma, which you'll see if you haunt image sites on the web for very long. Presets, (even yours), don't help much when the very next image to be worked on is too dark or too light.

But maybe a selection can be implemented for zeroing the box?

EDIT: I have found that many monitors, perhaps most, have variations between them. What looks good to you might not to me, and vice versa. CRT's and LCD's are most certainly different, and nowadays it comes more and more into play as concerning the varying quality of images. Even my camera on AUTO has variations, hence it's why I personally "holler" so much for a resettable dialog. :wink:
Last edited by Irving on Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clo
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Tss, tss---

Post by Clo » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:51 pm

:arrow: Olivier_G

:) Hello !

- I think you have to work the most with big images, I've not.
- Why are the previews blown up always ? When I have a 27*17 pixels image to treat, this is not representative at all, hence quite useless.
- The 1/1 scale image (small or big) can't be moved on the screen, it's centred; so, in many cases, moving the dialogue to see it causes that the items of the dialogue are no longer reachable!
- In the opposite case with Filters >> Effects and medium / large images, the previews are tiny, and don't show any explicit image; only the 1/1 scale image displays the changes properly … if you can see it !

- I guess an option is needed, there is a real problem to work comfortably in all cases… For me, all new features are not wonders necessarily, I'm not a "yes-man", it's well-known ! :P

:mrgreen: Kind regards,
Claude
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Olivier_G
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Post by Olivier_G » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:03 pm

I use Picture Window Pro for my serious editing of photos. But I'll tell you what I would prefer, you may agree :mrgreen:
- a minimalist and moveable window to control the settings (no preview +could be minimized)
- the image in the main window, updated in real time (and quickly)
+ the possibility to zoom and move that image
+ the possibility to see the original image (just by pressing a key + mouse button) in the exact same position

...and it would probably please everyone (maximum and accurate view, Before/After comparison, etc...).
The tricky part, for Pierre, would be to keep it fast.

Olivier

Irving
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Post by Irving » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:31 pm

I use Picture Window Pro for my serious editing of photos.

Now I'm confused as to why you would even advocate tiny previews, since you seem to prefer serious imaging tools. :?

I like XnView. Don't make it "too" easy.

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Olivier_G
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Post by Olivier_G » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:53 am

Irving wrote:Now I'm confused as to why you would even advocate tiny previews, since you seem to prefer serious imaging tools. :?
I don't necessarily support tiny previews... but rather Before/After comparisons+fast preview: and lots of people like it.
Moreover, I tend to recommend XnView to various people: beginners, advanced... and I would prefer a solution that meets everyone needs.
Olivier_G wrote:- a minimalist and moveable window to control the settings (no preview +could be minimized)
- the image in the main window, updated in real time (and quickly)
+ the possibility to zoom and move that image
+ the possibility to see the original image (just by pressing a key + mouse button) in the exact same position
=> what's your opinion on this proposal?

Olivier

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Re: don't get me wrong....

Post by marsh » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:16 am

xnview wrote: Why preview is a problem? I think that it's a good way to see change quickly...
Preview change can look very different than change on larger image.
Example: Filter>effects>Spread'5'
So, easily seeing change on larger image is more important.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:59 am

For some effects the preview is good, since you can roughly see what the effects does (good for novice people who don't know the effects & filters in detail). But for fine-tuning an image, really the whole image is needed and the dialog for adjusting should be as small as possible.

I think the solution is to allow for toggling the preview on and off. In Corel Draw for example, users can choose between three views:
- Without mini-preview
- With mini-preview
- With mini-original and mini-preview.

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