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Dreamer
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Re: What standard ?

Post by Dreamer » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:38 pm

Clo wrote:—> Dreamer

:) Hi !

• The pipe | IS a standard item in configurations !
- It's not for you because you aren't a TC user :P
- And I don't see what is confusing : Just read…
- Anyway, less confusing than the current box where it's impossible to know what does what !

:mrgreen: KR
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Clo
If some option is in TC, it's automatically a standard? ;)
I use many programs (tried also many file managers), but I didn't know about it, so normal users have no chance.

Standard is checkbox, "radio" buttons, drop down menu..., "|" is not a thing that all Windows users know.

I said it's confusing, not for me, but would be for normal users IMO.

I think current dialog is quite good, with my suggestion it would be the same as other file-types, with 2 options also with possibility to exclude/include.

What would be easier to understand as "mark checkbox to show", "unmark to hide"?

Current option has been added after quite long discussion, so it's not just my or Pierre's decision.

2nd option (with small modifications) would be just better, you could include and exclude anything and whole system would be the same as other file types (above).

Waiting for other opinions (Helmut, Pierre, "normal users"). :)
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Clo
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Don't mix, plz!

Post by Clo » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:11 pm

:) You are mixing and confusing items in the dialogues and a character used by a certain syntax in fields !

- Yes, in TC this character is used to get that syntax in several places when it's needed.
I think current dialog is quite good, …
- Sorry, I don't think so, and I'm not the only… or else, I wouln't spend hours to draw fakes trying to bring improvements…

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Post by Lesmo16 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:36 am

I would prefer it this way:

Image

But as a TC user I would like separating "Included" and "Excluded" with a pipe, too. 8)
Everyone who believes in telekinesis, raise my hand!

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Post by marsh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:44 am

How would these suggestions look if 'Items Displayed' were a grid design?
My interpretation of Dreamer's suggestion:
Image
Exclude and Include would look better with this example- one function per row...

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Post by Olivier_G » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:40 am

This one is the best suggestion so far:
Lesmo16 wrote:Image
More comments:
- Avoid the pipe, as it is neither obvious nor user friendly and requires additionnal explanations (KISS in mind).
- The very small field boxes is not visually efficient with several extensions (as in Dreamer's suggestion, Marsh's grid or my own).
Olivier

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Post by Dreamer » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:06 pm

Lesmo's idea is not bad, but checkboxes would be for both - include and exclude - it could be confusing IMO.
The very small field boxes is not visually efficient with several extensions (as in Dreamer's suggestion
Why? There is enough space for 3 extension - enough for normal users, you can add more extensions there, of course, but is you don't like it, here is another suggestion:

Old:

Code: Select all

[exe com    ] files    [x]  [ ]  [x]  [x]
[pdf eps    ] files    [ ]  [x]  [ ]  [ ]
New:

Code: Select all

Custom files 1
[exe com             ]    [x]  [ ]  [x]  [x]

Custom files 2
[pdf eps             ]    [ ]  [x]  [ ]  [ ]
Note "Mark to include / unmark to exclude" could be added if needed.

Also custom1 could be marked and custom2 unmarked by default, to help even more, it would be more intuitive.
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Re: Cheese OR dessert…

Post by marsh » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:55 am

Clo wrote: - It's better yet, but IMHO, a special setting-page should be the best, with i.e. one field per colum using the separator.
- All cases could be supported, could they not ?
That could look something like this:
<m2> acual size of current dialog
Image

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Exactly !

Post by Clo » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

—> marsh

:) Hello B. !

Nice ! This is exactly that I thought about such a page !

- BTW : Back to 600*800 ? :D … Cheap magnifier-glasses for me (and 1024*768 still), ~ $24 @ my chemist's :P

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Re: Exactly !

Post by marsh » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:36 am

Clo wrote:Nice ! This is exactly that I thought about such a page !
One advantage is this: Exlude is mostly used, so it isn't often necessary to touch anything to left of the seperator.
Clo wrote: - BTW : Back to 600*800 ? :D … Cheap magnifier-glasses for me (and 1024*768 still), ~ $24 @ my chemist's :P
Yeah, bad eyes or bad habits. :)

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Clo
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Right !

Post by Clo » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:54 am

:) Hi again !
One advantage is this: Exlude is mostly used, so it isn't often necessary to touch anything to left of the seperator.
• Absolutely ! It's the reason for which I'm in favour of the | #124 character in an exclusion syntax !
Yeah, bad eyes or bad habits. :)
• Or both ? :P

[OT] In fact, such fake-glasses - but quite usable - are sold here at chemists' as a trick to turn around our medical rules about this product which make that getting “normal” glasses is pretty expensive ! [/OT]

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Re: Cheese OR dessert&#8230;

Post by Olivier_G » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:17 am

marsh wrote:That could look something like this:http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4691/iei7yf.jpg
I strongly oppose that idea: the end-user should not have to read anything to understand the settings. In particular, it should not confuse nor overwhelm first time users with too many specific usage.
XnView's current options are already too complex!!! No need to add more unnecessary complexity...

Note: XnView is not Total Commander! The audience of XnView is much larger among the not-so-expert users who just want to browse images easily and efficiently.
They will not spend more than 2 minutes on the Options, will not read more than option' name and will rely mostly on the mouse. Don't ask them to spend 2 minutes to read and understand just 1 option!!!
Olivier

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Post by marsh » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:55 am

>OlivierG
It could simply act as exclude box if there were no wildcards or seperators as input?
Perhaps that would help ease of use and also fit on current GUI by doing this:
a. acts as exclude if no "|" or "*" is used.
b. can act like include|exclude.
c. checkboxes act like on and off.

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Re: Cheese OR dessert&#8230;

Post by Lesmo16 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:03 pm

Olivier_G wrote:
marsh wrote:That could look something like this:http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4691/iei7yf.jpg
I strongly oppose that idea: the end-user should not have to read anything to understand the settings. In particular, it should not confuse nor overwhelm first time users with too many specific usage.
XnView's current options are already too complex!!! No need to add more unnecessary complexity...
Fully agree in both items!
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No!

Post by Clo » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:25 pm

—> Oivier_G

:) Hello !
…The audience of XnView is much larger among the not-so-expert users who just want to browse images easily and efficiently.
• This is not true. TC is widely used in a lot of big Companies by legion of average users, i.e. Airbus, Siemens etc. worldwide.
- And about the images viewing, there are thumbnails and other features to perform that easily… Many free plugins can help in that goal too, and they are very simple to install.
- I guess that you don't like in TC is prior the €28 licence fee ! :P

• And in the opposite of that you suppose, the Options in TC are much simpler about the number of pages, there is not any sub-category, but extra-ini entries complete the special cases like this has been discussed elsewhere here.

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Post by helmut » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:22 pm

I'm "middle" happy with the current solution for including/excluding in XnView 1.82, so it's good to see a new discussion going on. Perhaps the arguments, suggestions, and ideas in the old discussion are also valuable, see topic "File Inclusion/Exclusion".

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