how to add keywords to an image?

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BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:00 am

i see people talking about keywords and think i understand the broader concept but how do i add them using mp? when i tried to put something into a field with the metadata tool the test word i tried just seemed to disappear and the other boxes (below) wouldn't accept an entry.

and while i'm at it, i couldn't figure out how to use the categories tab of the metadata tool either. being version 0 i guess there's probably no documentation yet.

thanks,
BabaG

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m.Th.
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Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by m.Th. » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:26 pm

BabaG wrote:i see people talking about keywords and think i understand the broader concept but how do i add them using mp? when i tried to put something into a field with the metadata tool the test word i tried just seemed to disappear and the other boxes (below) wouldn't accept an entry.

and while i'm at it, i couldn't figure out how to use the categories tab of the metadata tool either. being version 0 i guess there's probably no documentation yet.

thanks,
BabaG
A post dedicated to you :D :

http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.p ... 85#p113251
m. Th.

The Ascetic Experience - The best photos and texts from Holy Mountain (Athos)

- Dark Themed XnViewMP 0.90 64bit & XnView 2.00 x64 on Win7 x64 -

BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:52 pm

thanks, m.Th.

still don't get how to add keywords, though. i can add things like byline and copyright but, when i go to the keywords metadata tab of the metadata tool, nothiing seems to work. i put something into the first field and it just disappeared. the other boxes or fields, while they will highlight with a blue bounding box, don't seem to take input. i know i'm doing something wrong but don't know what.

more generally, being an utter n00b to this, i find myself often confused by virtual vs. physical operations. i'm starting to get a handle on when things are being sorted or assigned virtually and when they are actually being moved or copied but it's still confusing. adding keywords was going to be my next step in trying to follow the logic but i'm stumped at the moment. references in other posts to things like 'keyword tree' have me completely baffled.

thanks again,
BabaG

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m.Th.
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Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by m.Th. » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:44 am

BabaG wrote:thanks, m.Th.

still don't get how to add keywords, though. i can add things like byline and copyright but, when i go to the keywords metadata tab of the metadata tool, nothiing seems to work. i put something into the first field and it just disappeared. the other boxes or fields, while they will highlight with a blue bounding box, don't seem to take input. i know i'm doing something wrong but don't know what.

more generally, being an utter n00b to this, i find myself often confused by virtual vs. physical operations. i'm starting to get a handle on when things are being sorted or assigned virtually and when they are actually being moved or copied but it's still confusing. adding keywords was going to be my next step in trying to follow the logic but i'm stumped at the moment. references in other posts to things like 'keyword tree' have me completely baffled.

thanks again,
BabaG
For the keywords, don't use the 'metadata tool' (aka Edit IPTC / XMP window). Better use the trees which are already on screen (eg. the Categories tree which is in the Info Pane in the lower-left corner in one of the tabs there).

About virtual vs. real:
  • On-disk management = File operations = copy/move/delete/rename are "real". You don't need 'anything' to see that and to 'save' that.
  • In-catalog management = Rating / coloring / keywords are stored in the database. You need XnViewMP to see these but you don't need to 'save' them. However there is an option to automatically export these in a special sidecar file (usually an XMP file) which, being an industry standard, can be read by other DAMs.
  • Photo Editing
    = The batch edits from Browser are automatically saved on destination. Always a "destination" exists. When you cannot specify a destination, this is the same file (IOW, the file will be overwritten).
    = The edits from dedicated forms - IOW from the Edit tabs - need a decisive action from user's part to commit (ie. to became 'real' as you say). Usually this is accomplished through 'Save'/'Save As' actions or through a message from program saying 'The file was changed. Do you want to save?'
just my2c & HTH
m. Th.

The Ascetic Experience - The best photos and texts from Holy Mountain (Athos)

- Dark Themed XnViewMP 0.90 64bit & XnView 2.00 x64 on Win7 x64 -

BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:58 am

thanks for the info, m. Th.

is there a particular reason not to embed keywords using the 'edit iptc' tool?
are you saying that i should forgo the keywords and just use categories? or are
you saying that there's another way to work with keywords from within the
categories tree?

i see that putting an image into a category allows me to then control-click it
(i'm on a mac) and bring up a context menu that includes the same 'edit iptc'
tool as well as a 'comments' option. do i use the 'comments' for keywords? i'm
still unclear when you say,'In-catalog management = Rating / coloring / keywords
are stored in the database,' i haven't yet grasped how they get into the database.
i see options for tag, ratings, categories, comments, editing the iptc data, but
nothing for keywords.

thanks and sorry for being so obtuse. the general lesson on virtual vs real was
very useful.

BabaG

BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:25 pm

ok. had a 'duh' moment and figured out how to add the keywords to image files. for anyone else, in the metadata editor (tools--->metadata--->edit iptc/xmp), in the keywords tab, you fill in the word you want to add into the first available field. it has a dropdown box and a larger box below it which, without any keywords, will be empty. the 'duh' moment came when i realized i had to hit the 'enter' key on my keyboard to get the keyword to register. silly me, i'd been avoiding that as i assumed it would trigger the highlighted 'save' button at the bottm of the window. it did not.

i'd still like to know how to do this the other way, directly in the database, though, snce that was recommended as the preferred way.

thanks,
BabaG

BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:35 pm

but wait, there's more! having gotten keywords into my file, i noticed that mp had, all of a sudden, created new categories under the heading of 'other.' i'd added three keywords to my test image and these same three words had been added as new categories. is that the process m. Th. was referring to for using the database for keywords? rather than putting keywords into the image file, i should, instead, create a category for each keyword? wouldn't that result in a zillion categories? and wouldn't it take a lot of extra work to associate each image with all of these categories?

have i stumbled on to something here or am i about to make a mess of things?

thanks,
BabaG

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m.Th.
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Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by m.Th. » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:06 am

BabaG wrote:but wait, there's more! having gotten keywords into my file, i noticed that mp had, all of a sudden, created new categories under the heading of 'other.' i'd added three keywords to my test image and these same three words had been added as new categories. is that the process m. Th. was referring to for using the database for keywords? rather than putting keywords into the image file, i should, instead, create a category for each keyword? wouldn't that result in a zillion categories? and wouldn't it take a lot of extra work to associate each image with all of these categories?

have i stumbled on to something here or am i about to make a mess of things?

thanks,
BabaG
(Let's say that) Keywords and Categories are the same thing.

The IPTC/XMP (etc.) are standards of encoding metadata in sidecar files. (gee...)

And now for us, mortals: That window in which you put the keywords creates a special file which lives / stays "together with" / "next to" the image. If you'll go with Explorer you'll see next to your beloved myBestPhoto.jpg another file called myBestPhoto.xmp (or similar). In this text file (you can open it with Notepad) the program stores (among other things) the keywords. However the program is set up to read these things automatically and to add the keywords to the Categories tree. This is the standard industry practice.

Work as you wish, but from Categories tree it is more direct (if you want to assign Categories ONLY) and, also, Categories tree supports not only JPGs/TIFF but also any other formats - most important different Camera RAW formats.

WRT to the 'gazzilion' of categories - Technically there is no problem. (Ok, there it is but it is outside of our discussion now)

But from Human POV it is.

You need to make a strategy, a plan in order to be able to (re)find the keywords in the future in order to search / filter. So do not 'overflow' with the keywords because then you will not be able to use them.

Keywording is an effort, a cost which we accept to pay in order to gain search quality.

But for this we must be attentive and think strategically.
m. Th.

The Ascetic Experience - The best photos and texts from Holy Mountain (Athos)

- Dark Themed XnViewMP 0.90 64bit & XnView 2.00 x64 on Win7 x64 -

BabaG
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 am

Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by BabaG » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:08 pm

thanks again, m. Th.

very helpful but...hmmm...i saved a tif with keywords and creator info in it and don't see any accompanying files. i have the system set up to show hidden files, too. any thoughts on that? and, btw, i think you've actually gotten me to where i can start to use xnviewmp, after some strategizing, of course. well done!

BabaG

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m.Th.
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Re: how to add keywords to an image?

Post by m.Th. » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:48 am

BabaG wrote:thanks again, m. Th.

very helpful but...hmmm...i saved a tif with keywords and creator info in it and don't see any accompanying files. i have the system set up to show hidden files, too. any thoughts on that? and, btw, i think you've actually gotten me to where i can start to use xnviewmp, after some strategizing, of course. well done!

BabaG
Yes, TIFF has the property (isn't always the advantage) to save such metadata (IPTC etc.) directly in file. You can see this by using one of the file detection change methods. (check the size, check the last write date, compress the old and the new file with the same settings, use a dedicated command line tool like 'fc' which ships with windows or 'cmp' on *nixes etc.).
m. Th.

The Ascetic Experience - The best photos and texts from Holy Mountain (Athos)

- Dark Themed XnViewMP 0.90 64bit & XnView 2.00 x64 on Win7 x64 -

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