Tags, Labels, Keywords, Categories etc.

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView MP

Moderators: XnTriq, helmut, xnview

nji9
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am

Tags, Labels, Keywords, Categories etc.

Post by nji9 »

Being an enthusiast of cartoons and short films it is important for me to
find them again in my collection.
For that I use XnViewMP's category system.
And doing that there are some suggestion that arose to me.

First of all I'm annoyed about the wording "category" for label, keyword, tag.
What we are doing is as simple as labeling, tagging, keywording files.
That's the way it is called everwhere.
The programs doing that are called tagging software.
So it would be a good thing not to use a different expression for that.
==> First suggestion:
Take "tag", "label" or "keyword" for that you are calling "category".
Best just one word for that simple action.
To me there is no reason to differentiate between "tag", "label" or "keyword".
So, let me name it "label" from now on.
(See also viewtopic.php?f=82&t=44246)

Drop also "keywords" as used in XnViewMP.

But what about "tags" then as XnViewMP uses it now?
Don't use tag for something the whole word is used to know it for a different
thing (= labeling).
As far as I understand it (I never used it), "tag" in XnViewMp is mostly
a kind of "marking" (??).
If that's the case then you should use that word for that.

But what about the category system XnViewMP offers now?

I think it is important to be able to categorize labels.
Categorizing is for me: structuring the labels.

All this is not theoretically thinking, but arose from me daily using
for my task (descripted at the top).

To be practical:

The purpose?
There are only 2 things I need labeling for:
FIRST:
Find again one special file I have in mind but don't know its name
or location, only some things it is about.
SECOND:
Find all files that have to do with (say) my biking (bike) and pubs (pub).

How to fulfill these purposes?
Obviously all files have to be labelled at first place.
And this should be possible easy-going.
Any label that come to my mind for that file(s) (holiday, bike,
telephone, trumpet).
This may be accomplished with the edit field at the top of the
so-called "categories" pane.
But there should also be an assistance to choose from a structure
of existing labels. By that I know which labels I moreover should choose from
(That is the category system is for;
with multi-inheritance and compulsary choices.
Multi-inheritance is essential:
If you take the labels "capital", "France" and "Paris".
"Paris" should be a child-label of "capital" AND of "France".
(If I label a file with "Paris" both labels "capital" and
"France" should be given to it it.)
They way XnViewMP does it now, I have to label "Paris"
as a "capital" and ALSO label the "Paris" in "France".
Very weird.
This is just the weak concept of partitioning (as a simple
file system). Labeling is much more than partitioning.
You should correct that.
(see viewtopic.php?f=60&t=40452))

In XnViewMP the so-called "category" pane is for the label structure.
For the purpose of important or compulsory labels I use the
"category set" pane (My sets: location, subject area, other important).
But it feels like a misuse, as it isn't made for that,
and this will cause trouble in the future I fear.
==> Second suggestion:
Adaequate realization/ assistance for that.

I miss an easy-going way to find all files with labels I choose from
a list or enter manually (with auto-proposal/ -completion).
Use case:
If I search for one special (or all) file(s) with a trumpet,
but I don't know if there exists a label "trumpet" and/ or
I don't know if I labelled the (all) file(s) that way,
then the only way in XnViewMP I know of is
- open a search dialog
- add condition, choose "category"
- scroll all existing categories (while "trumpet" maybe is
"hidden" deep in the category structure (music/ instrument/ trumpet)).
==> Third suggestion:
Make it easier to find files when I'm just pulling a label from mind.
(Maybe also an autocomplete edit field at the top of the "categories filters" pane?)

Of course this only my personal experience.
Probably I miss use cases important for other users.
jadO
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:36 am

Re: Tags, Labels, Keywords, Categories etc.

Post by jadO »

nji9 wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:48 pm I miss an easy-going way to find all files with labels I choose from
a list or enter manually (with auto-proposal/ -completion).
Use case:
If I search for one special (or all) file(s) with a trumpet,
but I don't know if there exists a label "trumpet" and/ or
I don't know if I labelled the (all) file(s) that way,
then the only way in XnViewMP I know of is
- open a search dialog
- add condition, choose "category"
- scroll all existing categories (while "trumpet" maybe is
"hidden" deep in the category structure (music/ instrument/ trumpet)).
==> Third suggestion:
Make it easier to find files when I'm just pulling a label from mind.
(Maybe also an autocomplete edit field at the top of the "categories filters" pane?)
Use Quicksearch. It can search in the category name as well: Tools->Settings->Browser->Quick search Check "Categories (catalog)".
Then you can use powerful regex to search.
User avatar
michel038
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:18 am
Location: France

Re: Tags, Labels, Keywords, Categories etc.

Post by michel038 »

- I agree to replace the word "tag" with " mark" because it is a simple marking.
Tagging commonly describes a lot of things elsewhere.
The word is already used in french version (marque) , but I don't know if "mark" is a good translation.

- Keywords have a precise definition in the iptc and xmp standards, when they are embedded in metadata (or added in sidecar)
In XMP metadata, the word "keyword" was already used in other situations, and instead the word "subject" was used. (xmp-dc:subject)
So I would prefer to keep "keywords" in metadata settings.

Categories.
- A first problem is that there is some (old) metadata called "Categories" which is confusing.
- Second problem is that in some other softwares, the word "categories" is used for hierarchical grouping of keywords (kind of parent keywords used only as a grouping head for lower keywords)
So it would be better to find another word that would describe the database role that Xnviewmp categories offer, in addition to the ability to export to keywords.
---
Multi-inheritance is essential:
If you take the labels "capital", "France" and "Paris".
"Paris" should be a child-label of "capital" AND of "France".
(If I label a file with "Paris" both labels "capital" and
"France" should be given to it it.)
You can use "Settings>Metadata>Automatically apply parent categories"
I miss an easy-going way to find all files with labels I choose from
a list or enter manually (with auto-proposal/ -completion)..
Make it easier to find files when I'm just pulling a label from mind.
(Maybe also an autocomplete edit field at the top of the "categories filters" pane?)
I agree. For now, I use a reduced set of categories, and for specific elements in some photos (jpg), I add comments in the iptc caption field. A first selection with a more general category displays a lot of pictures, then with the "Quick search" box, that works in the IPTC data of currently displayed photos, I refine the search.
nji9
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am

Re: Tags, Labels, Keywords, Categories etc.

Post by nji9 »

michel038 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:19 am
Multi-inheritance is essential:
If you take the labels "capital", "France" and "Paris".
"Paris" should be a child-label of "capital" AND of "France".
(If I label a file with "Paris" both labels "capital" and
"France" should be given to it it.)
You can use "Settings>Metadata>Automatically apply parent categories"
I know about "Automatically apply parent categories".
But that doesn't do.

Please try exactly the way I described:
Define the 3 (so-called) categories as I said.
And next... you have to decide if "Paris" is a child of "Capital" OR of "France".
You cannot declare them as child of both.

Actually it's a principle mishandling of categories/ labels in XnViewMP:
If you declare one category as the child of another, the first one "vanishes".
It is - in our example - "Paris, daughter of France" then.
That is completely wrong. As I already said.
It is just a tree hierarchy then.
I could better use the file system for that.
Labels (actually called "categories") are a much stronger concept.
Sorry for repeating myself.