0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

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CameronD
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0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

Win 7 - x64.
Settings:
Metadata->IPTC&XMP -> rating and label both ticked to export to xmp.

General -> File Operations -> "Keep original data/time for saving" is OFF
Browser -> misc ->rotation: "Keep original date/time" is OFF
edit IPTC window options : "Keep original date/time" is OFF

If I assign a new or different rating, then the XMP value is written/modified as expected, but the file's modification date and time are unchanged.

Is there yet another place with an option to keep original date/time?
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m.Th.
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by m.Th. »

CameronD wrote:Win 7 - x64.
Settings:
Metadata->IPTC&XMP -> rating and label both ticked to export to xmp.

General -> File Operations -> "Keep original data/time for saving" is OFF
Browser -> misc ->rotation: "Keep original date/time" is OFF
edit IPTC window options : "Keep original date/time" is OFF

If I assign a new or different rating, then the XMP value is written/modified as expected, but the file's modification date and time are unchanged.

Is there yet another place with an option to keep original date/time?

...this is perhaps because the XMP values are stored in an XMP sidecar and not in the image file?
m. Th.

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CameronD
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

m.Th. wrote:...this is perhaps because the XMP values are stored in an XMP sidecar and not in the image file?
They are jpegs - there are no sidecar files.
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m.Th.
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by m.Th. »

Why do you want this?
Are you in a multi-user environment?
m. Th.

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CameronD
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

m.Th. wrote:Why do you want this?
I have already had my rant on this topic. Nobody has given me a single reason why anybody would not want this.

I need file modification dates to their conform to their normal meaning.
I have images stored in multiple places and I access them from multiple computers. Sometimes I works on them from my server, sometimes from a laptop away from home.
I need to know which ones have been modified -and when.
I could set up my backup programs to checksum every single file every time I do a backup, but that is hardly efficient.

As I pointed out in the other thread, XnViewMP itself relies on other programs setting file modification dates properly, and if they are changed then it rereads the files and updates any changed data in its database.

And yes, just to make it more complex, my wife might occasionally work on the images as well. She recently corrected some of my captioning and I had forgotten to set all the options on her installation of xnview classic, so once again I fell over the "which ones were changed?" problem.
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xnview
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by xnview »

A new settings is needed Metadata/Keep original date/time?? or i use edit IPTC window options : "Keep original date/time?
Pierre.
CameronD
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

xnview wrote: i use edit IPTC window options : "Keep original date/time?
My setting in IPTC window is already to not keep original. The bug is possibly because rating has no IPTC value - it changes database + XMP only.
xnview wrote:A new settings is needed Metadata/Keep original date/time?? or
possibly.
The main problem, as I see it, is that the "keep original date/time" settings are scattered all over the place. The consequence is that I do not know if it is a problem, or if there is already another setting someplace that I have not found.

Ideally, I would like all options that select whether date/time is changed on file modification to be on a single options tab. Users could then simply tick - all, none, or some mixture for finer-grained control.
I very much doubt whether you need separate options for "IPTC metadata" and "metadata without IPTC", but I am not the right person to ask, because I still do not understand why anybody wants these options at all. I think a single option applying to all metadata would be enough.
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m.Th.
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by m.Th. »

CameronD wrote:
xnview wrote: i use edit IPTC window options : "Keep original date/time?
My setting in IPTC window is already to not keep original. The bug is possibly because rating has no IPTC value - it changes database + XMP only.
xnview wrote:A new settings is needed Metadata/Keep original date/time?? or
possibly.
The main problem, as I see it, is that the "keep original date/time" settings are scattered all over the place. The consequence is that I do not know if it is a problem, or if there is already another setting someplace that I have not found.

Ideally, I would like all options that select whether date/time is changed on file modification to be on a single options tab. Users could then simply tick - all, none, or some mixture for finer-grained control.

I very much doubt whether you need separate options for "IPTC metadata" and "metadata without IPTC", but I am not the right person to ask, because I still do not understand why anybody wants these options at all. I think a single option applying to all metadata would be enough.
Agree with all of above. In fact today IPTC is more and more a niche acronym. Hence I would say:

- all the 'Keep .... date/time" in a single tab.

- consolidate by removing the IPTC variants and keep 'metadata' checkboxes which will act over the entire metadata.
m. Th.

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xnview
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by xnview »

So put all in 'File operations'??

* Saving
* Lossless transformations
* IPTC editing
* Metadata change
??
Pierre.
CameronD
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

xnview wrote:So put all in 'File operations'??

* Saving
* Lossless transformations
* IPTC editing
* Metadata change
??
I think 'File Operations' is the best place for them.
  • saving - but saving what? it does not apply to saving after changing IPTC, or after lossless xforms. Does it mean "saving image modifications"?
  • lossless transformations - is obvious
  • metadata changes: Do you provide a single option, or split:
    1. exif
    2. IPTC
    3. XMP
    4. ? other?
I think the logic gets way too confusing - if not for the programmer, then at least for the user.
For example, if I say keep original for IPTC, but update for XMP, what takes priority if I change both? Would anybody ever want to chose a mixture of settings?

The same confusion applies to, for example, lossless transform at the same time as metadata changes.
The only way I can see to avoid ambiguity, is to have a default setting, and then exceptions that apply if only a subset of modifications is made.

Personally, I would vote for only having a single setting
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oops66
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by oops66 »

CameronD wrote:...Personally, I would vote for only having a single setting
Me too ... a single setting for:
... "don't touch my originals" policy by default
... And several customized settings to allow the write operations into the originals users files ... ;-)

Code: Select all

Example of already allowed write actions, into Settings\Metadata\IPTC & XMP \ ... :
Keywords
x Export DB Category to XMP subject and IPTC keyword
x Export rating in XMP metadata
x Export color label in XMP metadata

Comment
x Write comment in XMP (dcdescription and exifrusercomment)
See here too:
http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p117896
... so: Wait, wait, wait... ;-)
XnViewMP Linux X64 - Debian - X64
CameronD
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by CameronD »

oops66 wrote:
CameronD wrote:...Personally, I would vote for only having a single setting
Me too ... a single setting for:
... "don't touch my originals" policy by default
I may be missing something, but I think that is a separate issue - I will post my opinions on that topic in that thread.

The point of discussion here is - assuming we are writing something new to the image file, then what does XnViewMP do about the file modification date/time?

If the image file is not written to, then a question about tinkering with file modification date does not arise.
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oops66
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by oops66 »

CameronD wrote:...If the image file is not written to, then a question about tinkering with file modification date does not arise.
... No, it's for "general information" ;-) ... but depends on which OS file system you are / or kernel options you have (atime) ... but even when you read only(open) a file, you have a write operation to this file: timestamp (access time :atime) ;-)
http://www.unixtutorial.org/2008/04/ati ... lesystems/
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XnTriq
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by XnTriq »

CameronD wrote:The main problem, as I see it, is that the "keep original date/time" settings are scattered all over the place.
Semi-OT: Same situation as for XnView Classic!
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xnview
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Re: 0.64 MP ignores file saving settings

Post by xnview »

So only ONE settings everywhere?
Pierre.