Newbie question on tagging

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nji9
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Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:38 am

Hi... for the very first time :-)

I would like to use XnView mainly for tagging/ labelling my files.
And for that I have these questions:

Is it possible to ...
  • 1. label all type of files with XnView?
  • 2. build "label hierarchies" (dog as sub-label of animal as sub-label of livingthing),
    so that if I assign to dog, it is also assigned to animal and to livingthing etc.?
  • 3. define a "category group" with not only some
    labels in it, but also some as NOT in it (for example: show all animals
    but dogs)?
Thankyou in advance for help.

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michel038
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by michel038 » Wed May 13, 2020 11:49 am

Hello,
Two ways for labelling :
a) save labels only in xnviewmp's database (catalog),
or
b) save labels also in files. But only some types of files support embedded tags ( jpg photos and a few others).

If you want to tag any types of files (a), only XnViewMp will be able to read it's own catalog, you will never use another software for this task.
If you choose to tag only supported files (b), standard methods are used to save tags (iptc, xmp standards) and many other softwares will be able to read tags in the future. You must check some settings in "settings, metadata" pane , so XnViewMp creates it's DB, AND writes metadata into fles.
That was for your first question.



In both cases ,
Q2) = yes

Q3) If you use "Categories" for tagging ( "Categories" is a tool that makes tagging easier, it can create the database and write keywords in photos))
- use "Categories filter" , select "animals", and Alt-click "dog".

(see first "match" menu at the top of categories filter screen)
- select "cats" and Ctrl click "dogs" to get photos containing cats or dogs (with match : any)
- select "dogs" and Ctrl "young" to get only young dogs (match : all)
Q3 end

- When tagging, "Categories sets" in XnViewMp is a way to show only some categories if you have hundreds, it saves time.

( I think its's possible to install two instances of XnViewMp , using portable zip version, with local settings in each program folder. Use the first one with photos and embedded metadata, and the second one with any files, without writing metadata... I dont know if anyone has ever experienced that )
Last edited by michel038 on Wed May 13, 2020 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nji9
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Location: Germany

Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Wed May 13, 2020 12:04 pm

Hello...

... and thankyou very much for that satisfying answer!

Actually I would never want to change the orig files in any way (including iptc, xmp or whatever).
I will do with the external tagging.

Hope everything works as described by you ... doing it ... NOW.

Greetings!

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michel038
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by michel038 » Wed May 13, 2020 12:08 pm

Actually I would never want to change the orig files in any way (including iptc, xmp or whatever).
Use only "XMP sidecar" files.
Metadata are saved in xmp files near to each file

That's the good answer for q1 q2 q3

nji9
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Wed May 13, 2020 5:54 pm

I've to ask...

I did that way:

Within the category filter I added "animals" with two sub-categories "cats" and "dogs".

Now I assign "cats" to a file.
I would have expected/ wanted that (as a specification of "animals")
that file inherits category "animals" in addition to "cats", but it doesn't.
So if I let show all animals, no cats are shown.
So your answer Q2 does not do...?

And Q3 is obsolete then also...

The meaning of Alt-click and the "No" sign stays obscure to me.

I must have misunderstood you?
Last edited by nji9 on Wed May 13, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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michel038
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by michel038 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:56 pm

I tried "short" answser :D (English is not my natural language )
XnviewMp has plenty of settings ...
I only practice XnViewMp in Windows.

In "settings, metadata" , you can check "automatically appply parent keywords" even if keywords are not added in files, categories will work whith this setting.
That is for tagging.

But this setting interferes with multiple selection in categories filter ...
When filtering, uncheck "automatically appply parent keywords"
Choose in "match" menu the place where files are selected (global, current folder, current folder recursive)
Choose if you want to filter files matching any criteria , or all criterias

Now, in "categories filter" pane you can :
- select a category, to filter files having this category
- select two or more categories by combining "Ctrl" key and mouse click on another category
- select a category to exclude by combining "Alt" key and mouse click

You can also use "search" feature ...

nji9
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:56 pm

Merci encore :-)

I would like to say that for a newbie these things should be improved:
Parent categories should inherit by default.
Alt-Click for disabling should be mentioned somewhere/ more prominent.
The actions made in "category sets" should be reflected in the state of the small buttons instantly when executed.

michel038 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:49 am

If you want to tag any types of files, only XnViewMp will be able to read it's own catalog, you will never use another software for this task.
It may be an argument for trust in the database (instead of IPCT, XMP).
Its format is NOT proprietary XnView but standard open source SQLite.
Which means you can use the db for whatever you like,
explore with (open source) SQLiteStudio or access by API.
So you may use its data in other apps.

nji9
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am
Location: Germany

Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:49 pm

When I have many categories ... is there a way to define
special category filter combinations (cats: yes and dogs: no and ... etc.)?

Will all the labelling information be lost, if the location of the files changes?
Or is there a way to change that?

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michel038
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Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by michel038 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:26 am

When I have many categories ... is there a way to define
special category filter combinations (cats: yes and dogs: no and ... etc.)?
Only in "Search" window, by saving with the green "+" ... but today I encountered a bug, it doesn't work ...
Will all the labelling information be lost, if the location of the files changes?
Or is there a way to change that?
If you move files in xnViewMP, DB information in updated.
If you moved files with another tool, you'll have to use "Settings, Catalog" , select the folder and use "relocate" button.

A feature that may be interesting for you is "File's categories, export"
It's in a drop down menu at the top of "Categories" pane.
You'll get a xml file containing links beteween files and categories. This file can be updated within a notepad , and imported.
This xml file is a kind of backup for the database, but stars and color labels are not handled
Which means you can use the db for whatever you like,
explore with (open source) SQLiteStudio or access by API.
So you may use its data in other apps.
Right, I hadn't thought about that.

nji9
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am
Location: Germany

Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:56 am

Thankyou.

OT:
I would like to share the experiences I made that lead me to XnViewMP.
You will have guessed ... it's because of labelling (any kind) of files.
I stumbled upon this comparison
https://turbofuture.com/computers/Whats ... s-A-Review
Seems like a long list, but I have my ruling-outs:
No Win10 apps (I will never change to that ... "os".)
No software that has the "subscription model"
(don't know if that is the right translation, for that rudiculous thing).
I mean to pay every year to keep it running).
No software that is connected too much on a special operation system.
No software that changes the orig data in any way.
Beside the standard requirements for a labeling software
it should do label (multi-) inheritance.

Would you believe ... the list shrinks to ...
well ... after testing the few ...

Elyse and now ... last of all XnView.

Last, because I couldn't image that an image management tool
could do better than the specialized products.
But ... as far as I do now ... it does!
OK, I wanted to share my experience, maybe it's of use for anyone.

nji9
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am
Location: Germany

Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Thu May 14, 2020 8:05 pm

michel038 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:26 am
When I have many categories ... is there a way to define
special category filter combinations (cats: yes and dogs: no and ... etc.)?
Only in "Search" window, by saving with the green "+" ... but today I encountered a bug, it doesn't work ...
Do you file an error report on that?

nji9
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 10:33 am
Location: Germany

Re: Newbie question on tagging

Post by nji9 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:11 pm

I did it meanwhile viewtopic.php?f=62&t=40446

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