"Save As" for Browser vs. Batch Convert

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView Classic

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marsh
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Re: Improve Batch Convert

Post by marsh » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:01 am

Dreamer wrote: #1 "[x] Use the same directory as file(s)" (Marsh, you were faster :wink: )
It would work well as a permanent part of drop down list.

I also see no harm in putting "save as" into browser mode. Some users may find the output directory style of "save as" more appealing. I think 'most recent file types at top of list' would work well in both dialogues, even though it is minimalist. :)

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:03 am

marsh wrote:Batch convert will use current directory if its output field is cleared with <del>. Because of this, it is faster than other method for me.
Wow, didn't know until, now. :o
marsh wrote:Perhaps the dialogue can be improved (while keeping it small enough). Possibilites:

1. Display "Same directory as file(s)" instead of empty space for output directory when possible.
I strongly agree.
marsh wrote:2. Down Arrow with recent directories, including "Same directory as file(s)", to right of output directory. Favorites?
I also agree, here. But isn't "Same directory as file(s)" the default? I wouldn't list that one.[/quote]
marsh wrote:3. Automatically include filename when launching from viewer (more powerful alternative to 'save as'). http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?t=2955
Another good one. By default we have "Batch convert" in the toolbar in image view. I'd also expect the file list to contain the current file when started from image view mode.

If all this works well, we might rename "Batch convert" to "Convert".

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helmut
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New Layout

Post by helmut » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:05 am

When opening the dialog "Batch convert...", I guess (novice) users are a bit baffled since there are many options.

Dialog "Batch Convert" in XnView 1.80:
Image

A new, clearer layout would make things clearer and even easier to handle:

Suggestion A:
Image

The charme of solution A.) is that the "Advanced operations" (here: "Transformations") are not a sub dialog which is opened by button "Advanced" but a simple folder tab.

Suggestion B:
When applying the tab approach consequently, output and input may become own folder tabs, which would like this:

Image
On the tab "Output", the file list is shown but only read-only.

The tab "Input" would also have the file list with buttons to add files and folders and remove them. (For slide show there would be also a preview and the "Sort" buttons).

To make this solution B.) work well, XnView would switch to the "Input" page in case the list of files is empty. If it's not empty, the "Output" tab will be opened automatically.

The good thing of this solution is its simpliness (the tab page "Output" looks almost as simple as the "Save" dialog). And this approach could be applied for the slide show and other multi operations. See also discussion in topic "Unified way for creating file list".

I expect some people complaining and not wanting a folder tab approach. Please have a look at the above approach and really try to "feel" how it works. Let's then discuss this and see.

Comments are welcome...
Last edited by helmut on Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

marsh
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Post by marsh » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:41 am

I prefer a single layer approach to a universal save-convert dialogue. Some less used buttons and functions could be completely moved under the 'Advanced Operations Dialogue'. Once that is done, I believe an efficient main dialogue can be created which at least fits 800x600 and possibly smaller.

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Post by Dreamer » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:53 pm

Helmut, I don't like your suggestions ("A" and "B"), especially "B".

What about basic options by default and [>>] (/[<<]) button(s) to show (hide) the other options. I hope you know what I mean. This option should be saved on exit. It would good for novice and advanced users.

I still think this should be changed:
#2 Rename [Options] "button" to [Format Options] and automatically focus on selected format
Another suggestion:

#5 Change "-->" to "Add" (in Advanced Operations)

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Post by Olivier_G » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:36 pm

The first time I opened this batch tool... I didn't understand immediately that 'Advanced Operations' was what I was looking for.

Direct access to 'Transformations' as a tab is an improvement (over another button): it seems more intuitive and logical. Therefore, I like Helmut's suggestions.
I prefer 'A' (no need for separate 'input' / 'output' tabs as in 'B').

Olivier

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Post by marsh » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:47 am

helmut wrote:
marsh wrote:2. Down Arrow with recent directories, including "Same directory as file(s)", to right of output directory. Favorites?
I also agree, here. But isn't "Same directory as file(s)" the default? I wouldn't list that one.
I think it would be a quick way of of resetting the output directory to the current one. Otherwise, the 'last used' directrory is default. This improvement would also work well for the current 'save as' dialogue. It would speed navigation in both.
Clo wrote:
…What if 5 most recently used types were floated to top of list with a separator?
- Sounds good as a temporary minimal improvement (could be set as extra INI-entries like proposed here) but could not solve the problem of a needed alternative path for saving, in example : *.aaa in path #1 >> *.bbb in path #2 >>> *.aaa in path #1 … and so on…
Yes, a minimal improvement. It has the advantage of keeping dialogue small in both 'save as' and 'convert' dialogue. I find Ouistiti's quick savebuttons an interesting alternative (which may even be useful in convert dialogue?), but then it takes up more space. And, I'm not sure a universal save-convert dialogue would be possible without sacrificing buttons or moving them somewhere else.
helmut wrote:
marsh wrote:3. Automatically include filename when launching from viewer (more powerful alternative to 'save as'). http://newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php?t=2955
Another good one. By default we have "Batch convert" in the toolbar in image view. I'd also expect the file list to contain the current file when started from image view mode.
If all this works well, we might rename "Batch convert" to "Convert".
Yes, that seems very possible when it handles single files better.
Dreamer wrote: #2 Rename [Options] "button" to [Format Options] and automatically focus on selected format
I agree with focusing on selected format.
Dreamer wrote: #4 (maybe?) Add "buttons" for most used actions, e.g. [Resize], [Crop], [Add Text] and automatically open "Advanced Operations" dialog and focus on appropriate option
One custom option button, with other "Save as Custom" button at 'Advanced Options' dialogue would do something similar and be more versatile. This would be a similar concept to an existing Xnview function.

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Post by xnview » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:04 am

marsh wrote:I prefer a single layer approach to a universal save-convert dialogue. Some less used buttons and functions could be completely moved under the 'Advanced Operations Dialogue'. Once that is done, I believe an efficient main dialogue can be created which at least fits 800x600 and possibly smaller.
I don't which is the better solution, in this dialog i would like to add output template filename too, currently there is no space for that :-(
Pierre.

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Post by Dreamer » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:54 pm

xnview wrote:
marsh wrote:I prefer a single layer...
I don't which is the better solution, in this dialog i would like to add output template filename too, currently there is no space for that :-(
What about a compromise of this:
#6 What about basic options by default and [>>] (/[<<]) button(s) to show (hide) the other options. I hope you know what I mean. This option should be saved on exit. It would good for novice and advanced users.
...and Helmut's Suggestion "A", but with the [Transformations] button to switch to "Transformations tab"?

What do you think about my suggestion #6 (above)?

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Post by marsh » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:51 am

-----Edit------
This is better than my first photo. The idea is to have retractable input file list at bottom.
Something like this might fit even without list retraction. Scroll/batch buttons might find new home at bottom of 'advanced operations' dialogue.
Image
Last edited by marsh on Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:15 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Post by xnview » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:05 am

Dreamer wrote:
xnview wrote:
marsh wrote:I prefer a single layer...
I don't which is the better solution, in this dialog i would like to add output template filename too, currently there is no space for that :-(
What about a compromise of this:
#6 What about basic options by default and [>>] (/[<<]) button(s) to show (hide) the other options. I hope you know what I mean. This option should be saved on exit. It would good for novice and advanced users.
...and Helmut's Suggestion "A", but with the [Transformations] button to switch to "Transformations tab"?

What do you think about my suggestion #6 (above)?
Yes perhaps a solution too, but need extra space...
Pierre.

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Post by Dreamer » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:05 am

xnview wrote:
Dreamer wrote:What do you think about my suggestion #6 (above)?
Yes perhaps a solution too, but need extra space...
"extra space"? No, by default, just basic options/buttons would be there and when you press [>>] button, all options/buttons would be shown (same as now). We/you must just rearange options/buttons - move "advanced" options/buttons at the bottom.

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Post by helmut » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:35 pm

This post got a bit messy, let's summarize some first things:

All the things proposed in one of marsh's previous posts are good things to make handling of "Batch convert" easier and should be implemented. These are:
- Output directory preset with current dir of input files (= current dir of browser)
- List of Recent output directories (including an entry for the current dir, this entry is added to the list of recent dirs when opening the dialog).
- Button "Options" will open options in category "Format" and focus on the selected format.

I think we must no longer discuss about these (or in single/separate posts of this topic, please).

Now, the layout of the user interface still has to be set. There's some feedback regarding the above interface drafts, but that's not enough to get a clear picture, yet. Perhaps you can describe why you like/dislike a solution.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:46 pm

xnview wrote:
marsh wrote:I prefer a single layer approach to a universal save-convert dialogue. Some less used buttons and functions could be completely moved under the 'Advanced Operations Dialogue'. Once that is done, I believe an efficient main dialogue can be created which at least fits 800x600 and possibly smaller.
I don't which is the better solution, in this dialog i would like to add output template filename too, currently there is no space for that :-(
Batch rename (perhaps just a simple version of the full "Batch Rename") might be included in my above approaches e.g. by adding a tab "Filenames" or "Rename".

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Post by helmut » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:52 pm

marsh wrote:Image
If I understand right, marsh, you want to show the contents of the "Advanced operations" dialog in the same dialog "Batch Convert" (title "Save picture". I think that this will take too much space on the screen. Handling would be perhaps a bit neater, but the part that opens up is very large, too large for one single dialog.

With the "Advanced operations >>", the dialog's layout doesn't become any clearer but even more complicated when opened. Clearliness and simpliness (in "look" and "feel") are the main goals of the current discussion.

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