"Save As" for Browser vs. Batch Convert

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView Classic

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:56 pm

Dreamer wrote:
xnview wrote:
marsh wrote:I prefer a single layer...
I don't which is the better solution, in this dialog i would like to add output template filename too, currently there is no space for that :-(
What about a compromise of this:
#6 What about basic options by default and [>>] (/[<<]) button(s) to show (hide) the other options. I hope you know what I mean. This option should be saved on exit. It would good for novice and advanced users.
...and Helmut's Suggestion "A", but with the [Transformations] button to switch to "Transformations tab"?

What do you think about my suggestion #6 (above)?
Advanced options (not: "Operations") are an idea, but these might not really help much since people want to change and/or see just one option. So most user will have the "Advanced options" opened all the time.
Dreamer wrote:...and Helmut's Suggestion "A", but with the [Transformations] button to switch to "Transformations tab"?
I hope this was meant as a joke.

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Post by marsh » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:42 am

helmut wrote:Clearliness and simpliness (in "look" and "feel") are the main goals of the current discussion.
I changed my original picture. Its less confusing now...

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:15 pm

I want to bring my above suggestions into people's mind, again. There is currently a discussion "Remember last used script". If there's a drop down list, this will fill up the dialog even more. So I again ask for a better solution.

Above I made "Suggestion A", which looks like this:
Image

Why not implement "Suggestion A"? This would make the whole dialog clearer and even give room for more controls and enhancements, e.g., like the dropdownlist "Recent files".

Also we should keep the numerous little improvements posted above in mind which will help to make the dialog "Batch Convert..." much more usable.

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Post by Dreamer » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:50 am

Again, [Options] button should be renamed to Formats or Format Options and it should be moved, next to Format: [ . . . ] maybe.

Two pages are OK, but Script should be on first or/and second page:

Maybe on second page, on the top:

Script: [submenu - last used scripts] [Open] [Save] [Export]

Also we should find a way to implement option "load last script automatically" , since this solution would be even more complicated, user must change tab/page first, select last script and then click to OK button.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:50 pm

Dreamer wrote:Again, [Options] button should be renamed to Formats or Format Options and it should be moved, next to Format: [ . . . ] maybe.
I disagree. "Options" button simply opens the options. It's pretty clear that the category "Formats" will be opened, already. Otherwise you would have to rename many other "Option" buttons, too.
Dreamer wrote:Two pages are OK, but Script should be on first or/and second page:

Maybe on second page, on the top:

Script: [submenu - last used scripts] [Open] [Save] [Export]
There's three pages in the above draft. ?
Only header info (important info) should appear on several folder tabs.
Dreamer wrote:Also we should find a way to implement option "load last script automatically" , since this solution would be even more complicated, user must change tab/page first, select last script and then click to OK button.
I think there's basically two types of people: Those who use the scripts heavily and those who use Batch Convert for simple conversion without saving. Our task here is difficult since we have to combine many things with two aspects in one dialog and still keep it simple.

Since we have many, many controls to complete the various tasks, I see no other way than splitting these into several folder tabs.

Perhaps XnView could remember the folder tab last used and open that folder tab next time. So the Script people would have the "Scripts" tab and all other people would see the "General" tab.

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:09 am

helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Again, [Options] button should be renamed to Formats or Format Options and it should be moved, next to Format: [ . . . ] maybe.
I disagree. "Options" button simply opens the options. It's pretty clear that the category "Formats" will be opened, already. Otherwise you would have to rename many other "Option" buttons, too.
It's not clear what options should be opened, it's below "Owerwrite", so I still think it's confusing and should be renamed or at least moved to the same row as Format [ JPEG \/ ] (here), we could enlarge [...] button above or even rename to [Browse], like this:

Code: Select all

Directory [             ] [Browse ]
Format    [ JPEG     \/ ] [Options]
I think also "[x] Use same path as original files" option is very important, for normal users. "Directory [ ]" should be greyed out then.
helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Script: [submenu - last used scripts *] [Open] [Save] [Export]
There's three pages in the above draft. ?
Only header info (important info) should appear on several folder tabs.
OK, only for second page, if this option would be on second page (Advanced operations), users could select last used scripts and see changes below immediately, it would be very useful, since it's just for "Advanced operations". Currently it's completely wrong placed in main "Batch convert" window.

Edit * - one item in submenu could be (if possible) e.g. "No actions" (same as "remove all" button, not very important)
Many people will wonder, what this at first empty and unlabeled drop down list is good for.
It would be clear with my solution above.

So...

I think this solution is the best:
- 1st page/tab - Input / Output (with the change above)
- 2nd page/tab - Scripts row and 'Advanced operations" below

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:44 pm

Dreamer, thank you for your replies on this difficult topic.
Dreamer wrote:
helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Again, [Options] button should be renamed to Formats or Format Options and it should be moved, next to Format: [ . . . ] maybe.
I disagree. "Options" button simply opens the options. It's pretty clear that the category "Formats" will be opened, already. Otherwise you would have to rename many other "Option" buttons, too.
It's not clear what options should be opened, it's below "Owerwrite", so I still think it's confusing and should be renamed or at least moved to the same row as Format [ JPEG \/ ] (here), we could enlarge [...] button above or even rename to [Browse], like this:

Code: Select all

Directory [             ] [Browse ]
Format    [ JPEG     \/ ] [Options]
Yes, this would make things a bit clearer. But main problem is all these controls on the dialog which makes things confusing, not this single Option button.
Dreamer wrote:I think also "[x] Use same path as original files" option is very important, for normal users. "Directory [ ]" should be greyed out then.
I think rather than having an extra checkbox XnView could simply put the current browser dir into the field "Output Directory" (I think this is what marsh actually meant in his above post.)
Dreamer wrote:
helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Script: [submenu - last used scripts *] [Open] [Save] [Export]
There's three pages in the above draft. ?
Only header info (important info) should appear on several folder tabs.
OK, only for second page, if this option would be on second page (Advanced operations), users could select last used scripts and see changes below immediately, it would be very useful, since it's just for "Advanced operations". Currently it's completely wrong placed in main "Batch convert" window.
Agreed.
Dreamer wrote:Edit * - one item in submenu could be (if possible) e.g. "No actions" (same as "remove all" button, not very important)
It could look like this:

Code: Select all

Script: [C:\Program Files\bla.xbs   ] [V] [...]    [Save...]
Dreamer wrote:
helmut wrote:Many people will wonder, what this at first empty and unlabeled drop down list is good for.
It would be clear with my solution above.

So...

I think this solution is the best:
- 1st page/tab - Input / Output (with the change above)
- 2nd page/tab - Scripts row and 'Advanced operations" below
I was about writing something like "I see no reason why "Advanced operations" tab and "Scripts" tab should be mixed into one tab." Before finishing the sentence I checked to see what is contained in the .xbs file. The .xbs file contains the list of advanced operations (=transformations) and the parameters, only. The list of files is not contained. So in fact it's not a script but simply a list of transformations which is saved and loaded. The term "Script" is not quite right, I think. Placing it on the "Transformation" page and renaming it to something like "Load transformations..." and "Save Transformations..." (or simply "Load..." and "Save...") would make this clear.

The "Export as NConvert script..." button is difficult. The script exported for NConvert is actually a real Batch script and will contain both transformations and the list of files. So I'm not sure whether the position on the "Transformation" tab is good.

One more confusing thing in the "Batch Convert" dialog which should be corrected: "Save script..." is at top and "Open script.." button at the bottom, in "Slide show.." dialog it's the other way round. Not our main issue, but another piece of the puzzle.

I think we are on the right track... :-)

Dig in the mud and you will find more mud.
Last edited by helmut on Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:17 pm

"Batch Convert" dialog in 1.82 Alpha
Image

And that's a possible results of the things written in previous posts:

#HM3: "General" tab
Image

#HM3: "Tranformations" tab
Image

I think it's much clearer than what we currently have with 1.80 Alpha.

I'm not 100% happy with the recent file list, yet. I think we should find a good and general way which can be applied to both "Batch Conversion" and "Slide show" dialog.
Last edited by helmut on Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by marsh » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Your tabbed suggestion requires a much larger dialogue than pictured- it needs to be somewhat larger than current transformations dialogue. That would approach the approximately 570 pixel limit. I'm not sure this would look as good, or fit as well as seperate dialogues.

The longer the yarn, the more twisted the thread.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:49 pm

marsh wrote:Your tabbed suggestion requires a much larger dialogue than pictured- it needs to be somewhat larger than current transformations dialogue. That would approach the approximately 570 pixel limit. I'm not sure this would look as good, or fit as well as seperate dialogues.

The longer the yarn, the more twisted the thread.
You're right, the area for the parameters needs to be larger. This could be achieved by increasing the size of dialog, reducing size of the list of available processes, and changing the layout. (With a shorter process list the search for a specific process will become a bit more difficult, but the list should be replaced by a treeview which will make searching easier, anyway (similar to Filter > Effects...)).

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Post by Dreamer » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:53 pm

Maybe we could move "Export" button to "General" tab...

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:00 pm

Dreamer wrote:Maybe we could move "Export" button to "General" tab...
Do you want to move the "Export" button to have more space on the "Transformation" tab or is there any other reason?

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Post by Dreamer » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:58 am

helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Maybe we could move "Export" button to "General" tab...
Do you want to move the "Export" button to have more space on the "Transformation" tab or is there any other reason?
To have more space and - you said there is also a list of files there, so it could be there... It's not so important.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:44 pm

Dreamer wrote:
helmut wrote:
Dreamer wrote:Maybe we could move "Export" button to "General" tab...
Do you want to move the "Export" button to have more space on the "Transformation" tab or is there any other reason?
To have more space and - you said there is also a list of files there, so it could be there... It's not so important.
O.k. Due to the size some changes will be needed, we should keep the possibility to move the "Export" button in mind.

I'd be interested to know what other people think about the above suggestions. Does everybody agree with the suggested "Tabs" approach shown in drafts "#HM03"?

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Post by Olivier_G » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:33 am

helmut wrote:I'd be interested to know what other people think about the above suggestions. Does everybody agree with the suggested "Tabs" approach shown in drafts "#HM03"?
Yes, from me.

Some suggestions:
- Change "Add..." in General>Input to "Add file..." to be more accurate (and avoid any "add what? script? Actions?...")
- Maybe the export function could be handled in the 'Save dialog', by choosing it later with the filetype ? (I am not sure if it makes sense, though, as I never used that function)

Olivier

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