rc1: [minor] rename option After 'Save as', change filename

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FlorianH
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rc1: [minor] rename option After 'Save as', change filename

Post by FlorianH » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:12 pm

In options - general...
[] After 'Save as', change filename
should be changed to
[] After 'Save as', display saved file.

See this thread...

Xyzzy
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Post by Xyzzy » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 pm

Actually, this option should disappear as it is expected and common Windows applications behaviour.

X.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Xyzzy wrote:Actually, this option should disappear as it is expected and common Windows applications behaviour.

X.
I fully agree. But there was some strange reason and special case for not changing the file name, I don't remember.

Related topic:
- Option "After 'Save as' change filename"

marsh
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Post by marsh » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:36 am

helmut wrote:
Xyzzy wrote:Actually, this option should disappear as it is expected and common Windows applications behaviour.

X.
I fully agree. But there was some strange reason and special case for not changing the file name, I don't remember.

Related topic:
- Option "After 'Save as' change filename"
So you can perform multiple edits and "save as" and still reload original image. This is a useful feature. It should not be removed.

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Olivier_G
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Post by Olivier_G » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:53 pm

marsh wrote:
helmut wrote:But there was some strange reason and special case for not changing the file name, I don't remember.
So you can perform multiple edits and "save as" and still reload original image. This is a useful feature. It should not be removed.
Wouldn't some 'Undo's and/or 'Recent files' be enough for that?

I have to agree that I had some hard time to guess what this option meant... :(
(I thought it would change the name of the file, or propose a different one, or whatever...)

Here is my own suggestion: Keep working on original file after 'Save as'

Olivier

Xyzzy
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Post by Xyzzy » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Completely remove "After 'Save as' change filename".

A new option can be added "Reopen original image after 'Save as'". But define how it should behave when the option to use only one View tab is turned on.

X.

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Post by xnview » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:23 am

Olivier_G wrote: Here is my own suggestion: Keep working on original file after 'Save as'
I disagree to remove this option, i have it unchecked all the time. Which label is the best?
Pierre.

Xyzzy
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Post by Xyzzy » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:16 pm

xnview wrote:
Olivier_G wrote: Here is my own suggestion: Keep working on original file after 'Save as'
I disagree to remove this option, i have it unchecked all the time. Which label is the best?
Oh, if you have it unchecked all the time, you could remove it and make "unchecked" behaviour the only behaviour :mrgreen:

As for name: "Keep original file opened after 'Save as'".

X.

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Post by xnview » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:26 pm

Xyzzy wrote:As for name: "Keep original file opened after 'Save as'".
This optin in not really "keep original file", but 'original filename'
Pierre.

Xyzzy
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Post by Xyzzy » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:18 pm

Hmm. rc1, After 'Save as' change filename checked.

I opened in View file ONE, edited, and saved it as TWO. Then I pressed Delete. TWO was deleted, so actually not only the name has changed, but also actual file. :?:

One more try (open, edit, save as)
When I was closing the displayed file, I was not asked about saving changes- I should be it if was original file. :?:

X.

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Olivier_G
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Post by Olivier_G » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:48 pm

Xyzzy wrote:When I was closing the displayed file, I was not asked about saving changes- I should be it if was original file.
When you check After 'Save as' change filename, you actually use the standard behaviour, and file considered is the new one: TWO (that you delete, that has just been saved).
Please keep in mind that my suggested name Keep working on original file after 'Save as' is actually the oppposite to current After 'Save as' change filename. It also helps differentiate from standard behaviour...

Olivier
So actually not only the name has changed, but also actual file
Edit: Oups, I just realized that your question means that you understood the behaviour but are suggesting a more accurate label than 'filename'... sorry about that.

FlorianH
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Post by FlorianH » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:41 am

Xyzzy wrote:...
I opened in View file ONE, edited, and saved it as TWO. Then I pressed Delete. TWO was deleted, so actually not only the name has changed, but also actual file. :?:
That's not right! The file displayed is the edited file ONE without the 'save effect' (for example strong jpeg compression)!
xnview wrote:
Xyzzy wrote:As for name: "Keep original file opened after 'Save as'".
This optin in not really "keep original file", but 'original filename'
As mentioned in the original topic, i don't know any use-case where it's usefull to have the implemented behaviour (show new name and display original file).

I know two use-cases in the context of the option:
a) user has original file and performs a 'save as..' operation. After that, it is common (windows standard), that the new file is displayed and that it is the new 'working' file.
b) user has (original) file and wants to do several 'save as...' operations of the original f.e. in different formats -> user wants to work with the original after the 'save as...' operation.

So from my point of view, a) is a must have feature (because user expects this) and b) is a feature which should be changeable by an option.

Right now, behaviour c) is implemented, when the option is activated:
c) user has original file and performs a 'save as...' operation. After that, original file with name of new file is displayed! Edit operations affect the original file. File operations affect the new file.

From my point of view, behaviour c) is only confusing and should be changed to b).

@Clo: Can you help here? There are several postings from you concerning the topic here, here and here. And apparently it was fixed for you in b3 (see here), what i can't confirm.

Xyzzy
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Post by Xyzzy » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:52 pm

FlorianH wrote:
Xyzzy wrote:...
I opened in View file ONE, edited, and saved it as TWO. Then I pressed Delete. TWO was deleted, so actually not only the name has changed, but also actual file. :?:
That's not right! The file displayed is the edited file ONE without the 'save effect' (for example strong jpeg compression)!
So how would you explain that file TWO was deleted? Also, I agree that it is not actually RELOADED, but this is someway expected. Fe. create a file in you text editor (like MS Word, OpenOffice Writer) with some tables and character formatting. Now save it as plain text file- formatting is NOT lost!
FlorianH wrote: b) user has (original) file and wants to do several 'save as...' operations of the original f.e. in different formats -> user wants to work with the original after the 'save as...' operation.
But this is what actually happens now. I think leaving the original file opened is not OK, because after Save as it is expected that next Save (not Save as) will not change orignal file, but the new file.

X.

FlorianH
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Post by FlorianH » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:17 pm

Xyzzy wrote:So how would you explain that file TWO was deleted?
As described later in my posting (behaviour c)...
- edit operations affect the edited original file (ONE)
- file operations affect the new saved file (TWO)
Xyzzy wrote:...
Also, I agree that it is not actually RELOADED, but this is someway expected. Fe. create a file in you text editor (like MS Word, OpenOffice Writer) with some tables and character formatting. Now save it as plain text file- formatting is NOT lost!
Yes, that's right, but i think it's not the right behaviour for xnview. Try the following:
1) open bmp-File
2) save as jpeg with qfactor=30 (small file size wanted -> strong artefacts in file, but not displayed)
3) make 90° jpeg lossless rotation (-> strong artefacts visible)

So the difference is, that Word keeps the formatting and you can change it/work with it but XnView doesn't keep the image information and you can't use it. I know, that this is only right for the jpeg lossless operations and that makes the topic very difficult. Therefore i would prefer (re)loading the saved image (TWO) in XnView.
Xyzzy wrote:
FlorianH wrote:b) user has (original) file and wants to do several 'save as...' operations of the original f.e. in different formats -> user wants to work with the original after the 'save as...' operation.
But this is what actually happens now. I think leaving the original file opened is not OK, because after Save as it is expected that next Save (not Save as) will not change orignal file, but the new file.

X.
The behaviour described in my use-case b) is implemented in XnView when you have the option []After 'Save as', change filename disabled. It should not be the default behaviour, but is usefull for the use-case described in b).

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Olivier_G
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Post by Olivier_G » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:53 pm

FlorianH wrote:Try the following:
1) open bmp-File
2) save as jpeg with qfactor=30 (small file size wanted -> strong artefacts in file, but not displayed)
3) make 90° jpeg lossless rotation (-> strong artefacts visible)
So the difference is, that Word keeps the formatting and you can change it/work with it but XnView doesn't keep the image information and you can't use it.
Except that JPEG lossless operations work directly from file by definition... all other operations work from image in memory.

So XnView keeps working/editing on what is in memory (without save/reload - and except JPEG Lossless), and this option just define which file is considered as the current working file (for save, load, delete, JPEG Lossless, Metadata, etc...).

My opinion:
- The "standard" is to continue working on new file(-name) after 'save as'. It should also be the default behaviour.
- There seems to be a need for working on original file after 'save as', although I believe it should be handled through 'Undo's +'Recent files'. I would like to get an example where this option is really useful.

Olivier

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