All Layout Options are Broken

[Drakemoor]

As the title say. It doesn't matter what option I choose from the View > Layout all options look broken and unusable.
It's a fresh new installation of XnView MP 1.9.5 64-bit on Windows 10, a 4k monitor.

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Clipboard Image (1).png (103.93 KiB) Viewed 341 times

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For example here how Film Strip 1 looks like:

Clipboard Image (2).png (213.75 KiB) Viewed 341 times

[xnview]

And Layout 1-6?

[Drakemoor]

Hi,
they all look the similarly; the panels are all jumbled and none works properly.
for example:

Layout 2

Layout 2.png (902.51 KiB) Viewed 309 times

Layout 6

Layout 6.png (905 KiB) Viewed 309 times

Even though image is selected nothing shows in the panels.

I tried reinstalling, cleaning all installation files beforehand, but the result is the same.

[xnview]

I tried reinstalling, cleaning all installation files beforehand, but the result is the same.

you have removed the xnview.ini?

[jkm]

As the title say. It doesn't matter what option I choose from the View > Layout all options look broken and unusable.
It's a fresh new installation of XnView MP 1.9.5 64-bit on Windows 10, a 4k monitor.

Drakemoor,

In my experience, this is something that happens with Layouts. I don't think the Layout options work well. They have some peculiarities that I can't figure out. In different circumstances, depending on what you've previously done, selecting a particular layout, like Layout 5, will produce different results. What you are seeing, I have seen many times. Until this feature is overhauled, my advice is to work around it. Don't think of these options as usable layouts, think of them as starting points to make your own arrangement. Each layout option has different restrictions (undocumented) on where you can place what components, like the browser and info panel. For example on Layout 4, the browser must be in the middle of the screen, and the Info panel is nailed below it and cannot be moved.

Here is what I suggest:
Start by ensuring you have the Layout Presets button on your toolbar, poorly named as a duplicate "Layout [menu]" but listed with "cmd_layoutM" Note the M after the cmd_layout. That's crucial. This button/menu will allow you to save/restore custom layout presets.

Once you have that on your toolbar, pick a layout from the View->Layout menu like you've been doing. Then use the View->Panels and View->Info Panels menus to make sure all the elements you want are enabled.

Then move those panels around, and resize them how you want them. There will be limitations on where you can move things based on which numbered layout you select. Even the "Free" layout is not totally free and has some restrictions.

Once you have the layout as you like, use the new toolbar button you added to save the current layout as "Layout A". You have 5 lettered preset slots to save with, and the same menu lets you restore (load) ones you previously saved.

So build the layouts you like by moving things around, and save/restore them using the toolbar button. Don't expect any of the numbered layouts from the View->Layout menu to just work. Personally, I find 3, 7, and Free to be the most useful starting points due to placement of the Info panels, but this is a matter of taste.

Hopefully this helps.

[Drakemoor]

I tried reinstalling, cleaning all installation files beforehand, but the result is the same.

you have removed the xnview.ini?

Yes, I did.

[Drakemoor]

As the title say. It doesn't matter what option I choose from the View > Layout all options look broken and unusable.
It's a fresh new installation of XnView MP 1.9.5 64-bit on Windows 10, a 4k monitor.

Drakemoor,

In my experience, this is something...

Thank you! I ended up doing exactly that. Thank you for your help.

[xnview]

The problem is when you click on an image preview/histogram is not updated?? Do you have tried 1.9.8?

[jkm]

The problem is when you click on an image preview/histogram is not updated?? Do you have tried 1.9.8?

No, that’s not what this thread is about, Pierre. He’s just complaining about how the View->Layout options don’t work well. I mentioned that to you before; that feature needs an overhaul someday. I gave him a workaround.

[xnview]

The problem is when you click on an image preview/histogram is not updated?? Do you have tried 1.9.8?

No, that’s not what this thread is about, Pierre. He’s just complaining about how the View->Layout options don’t work well. I mentioned that to you before; that feature needs an overhaul someday. I gave him a workaround.

Layout is like it's intended

[jkm]

Layout is like it's intended

Maybe you could write a guide to explain for users how it's supposed to work, and how to use it effectively. That would be really helpful.

Because when a user selects Layout 1, or Layout 3, or whatever, and doesn't get a usable layout, it causes questions, and frustration, and makes it seem like it has problems.

[xnview]

So which improvment is needed for each layout?

[jkm]

I think it goes deeper than that.

If you look at his screenshot of layout 2 above (just as an example), see how the folder tree is a tiny little rectangle in the top left corner? How is that usable? It's only tall enough to show 4 1/2 lines of the folder tree.

Look at the screenshot of layout 6. The Category Sets area is so short it can literally show nothing.

Also, if you select layout 2, and decide you don't like it, and then look at layout 5, and play with it a bit, change some things, and then go and try and load layout 2 again, layout 2 will be different from the first time you looked at it. Why does that happen? It is confusing.

Maybe it's not confusing if you understand what it's trying to do, but since the feature is undocumented, who fully understands it except you? What regular users know is that it does weird things like in the screenshots above. If I made screenshots on my computer, the layouts would look a bit different but just as unusable.

Just as an example, I selected Filmstrip1, and took a screenshot. Here's the layout it produced:

Filmstrip1.jpg (133.29 KiB) Viewed 76 times

Is this working as intended?

The browser shows less than half of one image. The toolbar buttons over the browser are about 2 pixels in size; totaly unreadable. The directory tree pane is so narrow you can't see where you are, and you can't see any metadata at all because everything except the labels is cut off. But at least the Categories pane has plenty of space, doesn't it?

I understand at this point you could start to move and resize panels, but my point it, if you just select a numbered layout, it's unusable "out of the box".

I think what people expect is that if they select one of the numbered layouts, it is always going to produce a usable layout, and that each number will produce the same layout every time. (Both of those things are false as things are now.) If you want to change then, that's what the saved presets (A-E) are for.

It seems to me, that each layout should have some pre-set sizes (% of application window size) for every panel, that are actually usable sizes, so that the directory tree never shows so small it's unusable like in his shot of layout 2. Or so that the Metadata panel is never 4 times bigger than it needs to be, like in his pic of layout 6.

I also think it would be a good idea if there were a Filmstrip 3 that more closely resembled Lightroom, and allowed a stack of panels on the right side.
And I think it would be good if some of the restrictions on moving things were eliminated. For example, in Layout 4, the Info Panel just can not be moved.

That's just my view, but I think there are a lot of improvements that would be needed for the feature to make more sense and be more usable.

But perhaps I just don't understand. That's why I suggested that if you wrote a guide about how it's supposed to work, that might help.

I didn't want to get into all this now, but since you asked...

[xnview]

If you look at his screenshot of layout 2 above (just as an example), see how the folder tree is a tiny little rectangle in the top left corner? How is that usable? It's only tall enough to show 4 1/2 lines of the folder tree.

If you maximize the window, you need to resize panel. Central widget (Thumbnail view grows his size, other panel keep width or height)

Also, if you select layout 2, and decide you don't like it, and then look at layout 5, and play with it a bit, change some things, and then go and try and load layout 2 again, layout 2 will be different from the first time you looked at it. Why does that happen? It is confusing.

Size of panel is kept

[jkm]

Well, I wanted to make sure my settings were not doing something to make layouts misbehave, so I started over with a clean install of the app, no .ini file or any configuration at all.

So this is exactly what a new user would get "out of the box" with Layouts.

The first thing I notice is that, while running on a 2560x1600 display, the XnviewMP startup window size is very small, comfortably less than 1024x768. So it's all squeezed into the middle of the screen, for no reason.

Immediately after starting the app, I tried Layout 8, and got this:

Layout8-1.JPG (104.7 KiB) Viewed 11 times

So I switched to Filmstrip 1, and got this:

Filmstrip1-1.JPG (61.76 KiB) Viewed 11 times

Then I immediately switched back to Layout 8, and it looked like this:

Layout8-after-filmstrip1.JPG (103.81 KiB) Viewed 11 times

The panels on the left side are quite different sizes now. But they were not usable in the first example, and they are not usable in this one either.

It's worth mentioning that if you maximize the window at this point, it does not solve the problem. Because the browser expands to take ALL of the new additional window space, and all the panels on the left remain uselessly small. I understand that would be a desirable behavior AFTER the user has reconfigured the layout as they want it. But when the layout is already poorly arranged, making the window bigger does not improve things.

So the user has to immediately begin reconfiguring the layout to even make things visible and usable. Does the user know how to do this? Does the user even know it CAN be done? If they are paying close attention, they may notice the grippers on some of the UI elements. But remember, all this is undocumented.


This is typical of the out-of-box experience with layouts. I gave screenshots of only a couple, but they all behave in a similar way.

I think that when users are trying out a new program, and they try the Layouts feature and get results like this, it can give them a bad impression of the application.

Here are several suggestions that I think could improve the user experience with this feature. Each preset should be adjusted with these in mind:

• It's not 1990, and people don't have 1024x768 screens anymore. Instead of defaulting to a small window size guaranteed to fit on any screen, when the application first launches, it should determine the resolution of the screen and resize itself to 80% x 80% of the screen size.
• Each layout should have pre-set sizes for every panel, calculated as a certain percentage of the window height/width. I think a good starting point is that no dimension should be less than 20% of the corresponding window dimension.
• Likewise, each panel should have a calculated preset max size that it should not automatically resize beyond.
• Each preset should display the same each time it is loaded, regardless of how things were positioned before.
• In their default state when the Layout is loaded, no element should be too small to be usable, nor wildly larger than it needs to be. So no folder trees half an inch wide, no Categories panes that take up 70% of the whole window.
• When configuring the default state of each layout, ask the question "Straight out of the box, if I load this layout, is it a good, usable view exactly as is?" -- For the existing layouts, I think the answer for each, right now, is No.

Additionally, I still recommend the following as well:
-Create a Filmstrip 3 that more closely resembles Lightroom, and allows a stack of panels on the right side.
-Some of the restrictions on moving things should be eliminated. For example, in Layout 4, the Info Panel just can not be moved.

Now, we have some other very experienced users on this forum. If someone thinks what I'm saying here to Pierre is nonsense, and that these screenshots show perfectly good views exactly as they are, please chime in and speak your mind and set me straight.

Or if you have ideas as to how Layouts can be made more user-friendly, please contribute that as well.