Usability without scanning headers

[Chungalin]

Hello. I’m new to using XnView MP. I’m ACDSee 3.1 user for more than 20 years and my bias is strong, but I’m really willing to make a switch to XnView and I don’t want to give up easily.

My first impression of XnView 1.11.2 [10051] is very good and it’s my choice to upgrade. As you may guess, I’ve tried to reproduce a similar configuration and workflow I used in my beloved ACDSee. However, I’ve encountered a problem. I never needed the browser to scan all images in a folder for their properties, nor I needed a thumbnail database. That’s always disabled in ACDSee. I’ve tried to do the same in XnView (Settings, File list, Scan file headers: never / Catalog: disable / menu View, View as: details) but I see that the program behaves erraticaly when it doesn’t have that information in hand. Images inside archives (RAR, ZIP) show in preview pane as you move selection, but cannot be viewed unless you activate scanning. And in normal folders, XnView behaves like it doesn’t want to handle the image internally, opening itself again (I guess that it’s because invokes Windows shell to open associated app, which is XnView again!).

ACDSee behaves more adaptively: it scans only the file under selection and populates its info in file list. Only the files that you browse get image info; others not. And that not makes any difference when you want to view the image. Is it normal that XnView doesn’t scan the image being browsed? If preview pane shows the image, and info pane shows all info, then it’s scanned! But file list doesn’t get updated.

If you choose view file list as thumbnails, then it’s like activating scanning, because it recreates thumbnails and then the problem disappears. But if you always work in details mode file list, it’s a problem.

[jkm]

Welcome to the forums...

It's a bit difficult to understand what you actually want, but I'll try do address a couple of things...

...And in normal folders, XnView behaves like it doesn’t want to handle the image internally, opening itself again (I guess that it’s because invokes Windows shell to open associated app, which is XnView again!).

I don't see this behavior. When you double-click an image file in XnViewMP, it opens in a viewer tab inside the existing XnViewMP application window. Unless you're doing something strange, like hitting F3 to "Open in Associated Program"; don't do that.

I wonder if you have the application installed or configured incorrectly. You'll have to be more specific about exactly what steps you are taking if you want help with this.

ACDSee behaves more adaptively: it scans only the file under selection and populates its info in file list. Only the files that you browse get image info; others not. And that not makes any difference when you want to view the image. Is it normal that XnView doesn’t scan the image being browsed? If preview pane shows the image, and info pane shows all info, then it’s scanned! But file list doesn’t get updated.

I cannot follow exactly what behavior you want to happen and what behavior you don't, and why. What specific info is it that you're trying to display in Details view? It sounds like you've intentionally told it to never scan file headers, and then are upset it's not scanning file headers. But I can't see why you care if it scans file headers, when you've disabled the catalog. If the catalog is disabled, the information is not cached and stored, so what else is there to care about here?

If you choose view file list as thumbnails, then it’s like activating scanning, because it recreates thumbnails and then the problem disappears. But if you always work in details mode file list, it’s a problem.

Again, not sure what you mean by your use of the word "scanning" here. Are you talking about thumbnail generation? XnViewMP does not perform thumbnail generation in details view. If you switch to Thumbnails view, it does, unless you turn the feature off. Go to Settings:Thumbnail, and do the following:
Create high quality thumbnail: unchecked
Use Embedded Thumbnail: checked
Create from original image...: unchecked
Create thumbnails for whole folder: unchecked

With those settings, XnViewMP will use the embedded thumbnail as-is if it exists, and if it does not exist it will do nothing.

XnViewMP is not ACDSee, and ACDSee 3.1 is about 20 years old.

Taking a step back, I would ask you what your overall goal for the Application is. Because in disabling the catalog and disabling file scanning, you have crippled the app. You're not going to get the most out of it. And you're using it exclusively in Details mode too, so it sounds like you're doing everything to intentionally get the LEAST out of it.

So what is it that you're looking for an application to actually do for you, and what is it you're trying to accomplish? Perhaps XnViewMP is not the app for you. Help us understand what you're after, and perhaps we can get you pointed in the right direction.

[Chungalin]

Thanks for your answer. It seems that you haven’t been able to reproduce my issue.

First of all, I don’t mean to "cripple" the application. All I’ve done is to configure the application in a way it allows me to do, so if it behaves wrong under certain legal configurations, then there’re two options: consider it a bug; or prevent that configuration to be set by the user.

I don’t need certain features, and XnView allows me to disable them. And I’m sure that the application should still be able to display images normally with those options disabled.

I’ll explain the minimal steps to reproduce the issue from a clean installation of 1.11.2 x64 under Windows 10:

1) Create a new folder with a few JPGs and with a ZIP file containing a few JPGs.
2) Make sure %AppData%\XnView config folder is deleted or renamed, and then install.
3) First run, choose language English, only check Register application.
4) Menu: View > Details.
5) Settings: Catalog: disable; File list: scan headers: never
6) Browse to the folder created in first step.
7) Double click on a JPG: does it open viewer in a new tab or ir opens a new instance of XnView? What should it do?
8) Browse into ZIP archive. Double click on a JPG inside it. Does it open viewer or does nothing? What should it do?

[jkm]

Thanks for your answer. It seems that you haven’t been able to reproduce my issue.

I haven't been able to understand your issue, at least the issue/s in your first post. Your original post contains many vague, contradictory, and sometimes outright false statements (like "cannot be viewed unless you activate file scanning"). And in your reply, you didn't address any of the things I asked you. You instead tried to "simplify" and reduce to first principles, perhaps because you felt my questions were not germane.

But here's the thing... I donate time to help people, and I prefer to help people who have legitimate issues and use cases, instead of pursuing intellectual exercises; a lot of people complain simply because they like to complain. I don't like to waste my time on nonsense, and understanding the end goal helps get there more effectively, especially with inexperienced users. So it's germane to getting the best, or any, help.

Since you won't explain what you meant, the help I can give you is going to be minimal, and is not going to address some of the things you referred to in your original post, because you pigeon-holed yourself with your simplified steps below.

But I'll try and shed some light on the specific behavior you raised...

First of all, I don’t mean to "cripple" the application. All I’ve done is to configure the application in a way it allows me to do, so if it behaves wrong under certain legal configurations, then there’re two options: consider it a bug; or prevent that configuration to be set by the user.

No, there's a third option that you didn't consider: that the user doesn't know what he's doing.

I’ll explain the minimal steps to reproduce the issue from a clean installation of 1.11.2 x64 under Windows 10:

Reproduce which issue? Because there's nothing at all in your 7 steps about "image info" or "details view" etc. These steps are entirely about single-instance vs multi-instance. So that's the one that will be addressed.

1) Create a new folder with a few JPGs and with a ZIP file containing a few JPGs.
2) Make sure %AppData%\XnView config folder is deleted or renamed, and then install.
3) First run, choose language English, only check Register application.
4) Menu: View > Details.
5) Settings: Catalog: disable; File list: scan headers: never
6) Browse to the folder created in first step.

Insufficient specificity. Browse USING WHAT? Browse inside the XnViewMP application, or using Windows Explorer?
Registering the application implies you're interested in launching the app by double-clicking a file in Windows Explorer. If you are opening images from inside XnViewMP, registering the application is irrelevant.

6) Double click on a JPG: does it open viewer in a new tab or ir opens a new instance of XnView? What should it do?
7) Browse into ZIP archive. Double click on a JPG inside it. Does it open viewer or does nothing? What should it do?

Again, open the ZIP using WHAT? XnViewMP or Explorer? It matters where you're accessing the image file from.

If you open an image inside the XnViewMP app, it will open in a tab inside the XnViewMP window (unless you use F3 as I mentioned before).

If you double-click on an image outside the app, like in Explorer, the behavior will depend on how the application is configured. There is a setting you're ignorant of, that controls this behavior. Tools->Settings:General:Allow only one application instance.

If that option is unchecked (disabled), then a new viewer window will open for each image you double-click in Explorer.
If that option is checked (enabled) then each new image opened will appear in a tab in the existing XnViewMP window. There is also a setting to limit the number of tabs; if you set that to 1, then each new opened image will replace the previous one in the single viewer tab available.

ZIPs are irrelevant for the above. What matters is what application you're in when you double-click the file, as described above.

So unfortunately with your simplified steps, there's nothing to discuss with regard to details view or most of the other things you've mentioned in your original post. It's transitioned into only being about the app "opening itself again"...

But I can correct you on one other misunderstanding you have, and this touches on your step 7, about "Images inside archives (RAR, ZIP) show in preview pane as you move selection, but cannot be viewed unless you activate scanning".

That is false.

What does not work, when you disable header scanning, is double-clicking to view the image that is inside a zip file. You can still view the image in a tab by opening it. There is a command for this, cmd_Open. It is accessible in several places:
-Right click on the image file and select Open
-Select the file, then on the File menu, select "Open" (the second Open, without the ...)
-Bind the shortcut for cmd_Open to a key, like Enter. Tools->Settings:Interface:Shortcuts. Then just select the file and hit Enter.

You can open any image file inside a zip by using the above means, whether file scanning is turned on or off.

Hopefully this information has been helpful.

XnViewMP is extremely configurable. There are a lot of options to learn, and a lot that can confuse an new or inexperienced user, but it can be adapted to most workflows. It is also poorly documented. But it is also very actively developed, the developer is very conscientious about improving the app, and it has made great strides in the last year. That being said, it is not at all clear that the application or the direction of future development is favorable to the sort of usage pattern you seem to favor. You might be better served by an application that focuses less on all the things you don't want and more on the things you do.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in your future evaluation of the app.

[user0]

1) Create a new folder with a few JPGs and with a ZIP file containing a few JPGs.
2) Make sure %AppData%\XnView config folder is deleted or renamed, and then install.
3) First run, choose language English, only check Register application.
4) Menu: View > Details.
5) Settings: Catalog: disable; File list: scan headers: never
6) Browse to the folder created in first step.
67) Double click on a JPG: does it open viewer in a new tab or ir opens a new instance of XnView? What should it do?
78 ) Browse into ZIP archive. Double click on a JPG inside it. Does it open viewer or does nothing? What should it do?

I can reproduce
step 7 - image opens in new instance
step 8 - image does not open

I haven't been able to understand your issue

good practice - if I do not understand the issue, I do testing and do not write one-page offtop essays

[Chungalin]

What does not work, when you disable header scanning, is double-clicking to view the image that is inside a zip file. You can still view the image in a tab by opening it. There is a command for this, cmd_Open. It is accessible in several places:
-Right click on the image file and select Open
-Select the file, then on the File menu, select "Open" (the second Open, without the ...)
-Bind the shortcut for cmd_Open to a key, like Enter. Tools->Settings:Interface:Shortcuts. Then just select the file and hit Enter.

You can open any image file inside a zip by using the above means, whether file scanning is turned on or off.

Hopefully this information has been helpful.

Thanks, jkm. This part is interesting. If I chose Open explicitly, it behaves as I expected. The odd thing is: if double clicking is supposed to be conceptually equivalent to Open, why it doesn’t do the same in this case?

With F11 (Fullscreen) it’s weird too. F11 works as expected in normal folders, but being inside a ZIP, if I press F11 over an image, it goes to fullscreen in black, not showing any image, but, if then I scroll the mouse wheel, next image shows up perfectly; scroll back, and previous image shows OK (the one I wanted to see first). But even weirder: if I do the same a few times, after a while image shows OK at first F11 press, and then it works well until I close XnView. Upon reopening, the behaviour repeats.

Also, I’ve found other inconsistences. For instance, if inside a ZIP archive, I make Ctrl+C, exit the ZIP, and press Ctrl+V, it doesn’t extract the image out of the ZIP. If inside ZIP, I choose Copy to... (contextual menu) and choose a destination, it throws an error "Source doesn’t exist". I know I have many alternatives to extract a file from a ZIP or RAR, but since XnView has builtin archive support, I believe this is a bug.

I can reproduce
step 7 - image opens in new instance
step 8 - image does not open

Thanks for your test. It’s obvious I gave the right instructions to reproduce this behaviour, with minimal assumptions. Yes, I assumed that all operations were within XnView, not from Windows explorer.

I don’t know if developer/s will be interested in fixing this. I think that they should, because it reveals some inconsistences under a circumstances that cannot be considered misuse. In the meantime, I’ll enable Catalog without thumbnail caching, and header scan Always.