1.80: Two Fullscreen modes?

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helmut
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1.80: Two Fullscreen modes?

Post by helmut » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:52 pm

In the XnView 1.74 browser you can directly open an image in fullscreen. But XnView will not just open the image in fullscreen, it will actually first open a window with the image and then open the image in fullscreen.

To make XnView faster and for other reasons a direct way to the from brower to fullscreen was created. In Browser, you can now open an image in fullscreen without opening a window. Technically, this new fullscreen is very different from the former fullscreen.

The main difference of this new fullscreen is the fact that when opening the fullscreen no window (image view) is opened for the image.

After this short introduction into the new, second fullscreen mode, I want to tell you my opinion and start a discussion. I'm well aware that this has been discussed before, see topics
- RC3: Lite Fullscreen Mode
- RC3: New names for 2 Fullscreen modes and Viewer?

But I think that the previous discussions were too much driven by navigation issues (Left mouse, right mouse, ...) and did not focus on the main thing: Two fullscreen modes.

------------

It actually took me a while to realize what happened in XnView 1.80. Suddenly there was this new thing around: "Fullscreen lite". Some people were discussing heavily on it and discussed details, and other people (like me) did not understand what was going on. I hope the short introduction above makes clear what actually happened so that more people can join the discussion, again.

So in XnView 1.80 we will have two fullscreen modes. This is pretty clear, now. The point is whether users should actually know that there are two fullscreen modes. I think the clear answer must be "No!". The two fullscreen modes are a technical "construction" which should be completely transparent to the user. If there is menu A in one (technical) fullscreen mode, it must be in the other (technical) fullscreen mode, too. And if key A is supported in one fullscreen mode, it must be supported in the other mode, too.

I don't even want to introduce names for these modes, since it's not relevant for the user. The difference is on the It's technical construction and the only difference is that when opening fullscreen additionally a window is opened or not.

First we should see whether my thoughts above are right and find a common basis. Then, we should see what the consequences for XnView 1.80 are. (Menus, Options, ...)

The consequences I currently see is that a lot of things have to be added to the new fullscreen mode to make it identical to the existing fullscreen mode. But let's discuss the basis, first, and not the consequences.

Feedback and comments are welcome.

XnView 1.80 <x>
Last edited by helmut on Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Danny
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Post by Danny » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:36 pm

I agree that for simplicity reasons there should be no 2 fullscreen modes. The everyday user will not understand why 2 modes are needed. Above that, they will probably even expect them to work the same way. I know i did - i didn't even realize 2 different fullscreen modes existed until someone on the forums told me.

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:28 pm

Additional important information:

New "Switch mode" options doesn't work good in RC4.

Therefore I suggest to wait for RC5 and talk about options we need in Fullscreen "Lite" first - until it's too late...

- Rename
- Properties


maybe also
- Copy to folder...
- Move to folder...


Because it is possible also in browser.
With the keyboard shortcuts of course...

Pierre could implement features we need and we can continue discuss the basis then...

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Post by marsh » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:42 pm

I do not think the concept of 2 fullscreen modes for a single program is sound. So even discussing new names, keyboard, mouse options for a less functional mode (which I will avoid if possible) is just silly to me. If this new fullscreen mode did not exist, v.1.8 would be a much better program. It would have additions and fixes which have been long awaited.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:43 am

Thank you all for your feedback. From what I can read so far, everyone wants only one fullscreen (from user's perspective). What I think and also read in marsh's post, the new fullscreen makes the messy. The way it is now in Release Candidate 4 is no good since the two fullscreen modes differ.
marsh wrote:If this new fullscreen mode did not exist, v.1.8 would be a much better program. It would have additions and fixes which have been long awaited.
Right. I also think that this is a major issue since it can confuse users completey.

@Pierre:
Do you think you can manage to make the two fullscreens work 100% the same? (Menus, Keyboard, Selection, ...) Or are there technical restrictions? Also, if it is too much work and/or will cost too much time, the whole thing might be removed again and postponed to the next version (only an "emergency plan"). Please let us know what your opinion and your plans are.

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Post by xnview » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:48 am

I don't understand, the fullscreen from browser is almost identical as fullscreen started from viewer. Even this fullscreen start more quickly than in old version... You can view picture/movie in fullscreen, make quick slide show, use cache, ...
And the power of the fullscreen from browser is when you have dual monitor...
If you find some menu items missing or shortcut, please tell me.

In the future i'll use fullscreen from browser in viewer too.
Pierre.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:51 am

xnview wrote:I don't understand, the fullscreen from browser is almost identical as fullscreen started from viewer. Even this fullscreen start more quickly than in old version... You can view picture/movie in fullscreen, make quick slide show, use cache, ...
And the power of the fullscreen from browser is when you have dual monitor...
If you find some menu items missing or shortcut, please tell me.

In the future i'll use fullscreen from browser in viewer too.
"Almost identical" is not enough, here. It must be 100% identical, otherwise it's no good (see discussion above). At the moment, for example all the editing (Selection, ...) does not work in the new fullscreen mode.

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Post by Dreamer » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:40 pm

xnview wrote:If you find some menu items missing or shortcut, please tell me.
OK, again, I think we need at least these items in the context menu (with the appropriate shortcuts/hotkeys-e.g. F2 for rename) - because it's possible also in the browser:
- Rename
- Properties


maybe also
- Copy to folder...
- Move to folder...
Edit: And maybe also "Make selection" and "Zoom in"
Last edited by Dreamer on Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danny
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Post by Danny » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:48 pm

Hmmm... i think file operations are the browser's business.

<Moderator's note: Post has been edited.>

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Post by Dreamer » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:15 pm

<Moderator's note: Post has been edited.>

Please wait until these options will work good:
(Especially "Browser, Viewer and Fullscreen Standard" - with this option you could use just "old" fullscreen)

This is my first suggestion to "fullscreen lite":

"Never use special lite fullscreen mode"

Now, I think we could achieve it with just one option to the current options above (I want add it not replace!)...

- Viewer and Fullscreen Standard / Browser and Fullscreen Standard

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Post by xnview » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:23 am

helmut wrote:
xnview wrote:I don't understand, the fullscreen from browser is almost identical as fullscreen started from viewer. Even this fullscreen start more quickly than in old version... You can view picture/movie in fullscreen, make quick slide show, use cache, ...
And the power of the fullscreen from browser is when you have dual monitor...
If you find some menu items missing or shortcut, please tell me.

In the future i'll use fullscreen from browser in viewer too.
"Almost identical" is not enough, here. It must be 100% identical, otherwise it's no good (see discussion above). At the moment, for example all the editing (Selection, ...) does not work in the new fullscreen mode.
Yes, the different thing is editing. I can't make it in this fullscreen. But it's normal, you are NOT in edit mode.
Pierre.

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Post by xnview » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:23 am

Dreamer wrote:This is my first suggestion to "fullscreen lite":

"Never use special lite fullscreen mode"
Sorry but i disagree...
Pierre.

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Post by Dreamer » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:09 pm

xnview wrote:
Dreamer wrote:This is my first suggestion to "fullscreen lite":

"Never use special lite fullscreen mode"
Sorry but i disagree...
I want it just as option (maybe disabled by default).
Now, I think we could achieve it with just one option to the current options above (Switch mode) (I want add it not replace!)...

- Viewer and Fullscreen Standard / Browser and Fullscreen Standard
But maybe the current option "Browser, Viewer and Fullscreen Standard" will be enough for users...

And what about my suggestions to Fullscreen lite?
Dreamer wrote:
xnview wrote:If you find some menu items missing or shortcut, please tell me.
OK, again, I think we need at least these items in the context menu (with the appropriate shortcuts/hotkeys-e.g. F2 for rename) - because it's possible also in the browser:
- Rename
- Properties


maybe also
- Copy to folder...
- Move to folder...
Edit: And maybe also "Make selection" and "Zoom in"

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Post by xnview » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:23 pm

Dreamer wrote:
- Rename
- Properties


maybe also
- Copy to folder...
- Move to folder...
Edit: And maybe also "Make selection" and "Zoom in"
I'll add it.
Pierre.

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Post by marsh » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:35 am

I still find 2 fullscreen modes confusing.

"Browser > Fullscreen > Viewer" - Seems to work as named.
"Browser > Viewer > Fullscreen" - Seems to work as named.
"Browser <> Viewer" - Seems to work as named.
"Browser <> Fullscreen | Viewer <> Fullscreen" - This does not work exactly as named. Nobody will know what it does unless they experiment with it.

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