Temporary Categories / Keywords
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Temporary Categories / Keywords
Hi - I made a pleasant surprise discovery of XnView while trying to find an alternative of IrfanView. It's got a lot of features I was looking for. It looks like it can replace what I'm trying to do with Adobe Lightroom Classic and also Adobe Bridge. I just need something I can tag keywords in a hierarchical structure and then have a program create and index the thumbnails I can search for a keyword in a photo in the future.
However, one thing I can't find is if there's a way to have "temporary categories / keywords" that's NOT added to my category tree like Adobe Bridge.
Here's an example:
I have a photo tagged with "country" / "state" / "city" and then maybe a bird type of "parrot" and a person holding the parrot tagged under "people". These words in quotes are all in my hierarchical category tree which is fine and I can reuse these categories / keywords in the future. However, if I want to tag the person's name like "John Smith" and don't want it to be in my hierarchical categories tree because I probably won't use that name again but it would be good to have associated with the photo just in case if I need to recall the name in the future. This is just one example and I have many keywords that I will only use once or not too often and don't want it to clutter up my categories panel.
This is what I can do with Adobe Bridge right now. I can right click on the file/properties and then go into the IPTC->Keywords section and add "John Smith". The "John Smith" keyword will appear italic as a temporary keyword and if I close Bridge, it will not be added to my keywords tree.
Now I want to still be able to search for this person in the future, so that's what happens when I import it into Adobe Lightroom Classic.
Is there a way to do it with XnView? The only way I can get around it right now which is to rename the file like IMG_2025_01_17_John_Smith.jpg which is far from ideal.
Thanks.
However, one thing I can't find is if there's a way to have "temporary categories / keywords" that's NOT added to my category tree like Adobe Bridge.
Here's an example:
I have a photo tagged with "country" / "state" / "city" and then maybe a bird type of "parrot" and a person holding the parrot tagged under "people". These words in quotes are all in my hierarchical category tree which is fine and I can reuse these categories / keywords in the future. However, if I want to tag the person's name like "John Smith" and don't want it to be in my hierarchical categories tree because I probably won't use that name again but it would be good to have associated with the photo just in case if I need to recall the name in the future. This is just one example and I have many keywords that I will only use once or not too often and don't want it to clutter up my categories panel.
This is what I can do with Adobe Bridge right now. I can right click on the file/properties and then go into the IPTC->Keywords section and add "John Smith". The "John Smith" keyword will appear italic as a temporary keyword and if I close Bridge, it will not be added to my keywords tree.
Now I want to still be able to search for this person in the future, so that's what happens when I import it into Adobe Lightroom Classic.
Is there a way to do it with XnView? The only way I can get around it right now which is to rename the file like IMG_2025_01_17_John_Smith.jpg which is far from ideal.
Thanks.
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Thanks for your suggestion! I looked into this already but it doesn’t quite work. Also, XNView should automatically re-read the meta data or at least the keywords when a photo is selected. Here’s why the “do not export” doesn’t work and the reason why XNView need to re-read the meta data:
I think XNView reads a photo meta data on the initial selection / view, saves that information in the database, but doesn’t read it again when you click on the same photo. This can be manually initiated by "update catalog from file" but it has to be manually done every time for every photo.
As I mentioned above, I (and probably other people) have tons of keywords that they might use once or twice, but won’t use it again in the future, but it still would be nice to associate the photo with that keyword.
Example: I have a Photo of a restaurant in Bordeaux named "French House".
I tag it as Europe -> France -> Nouvelle-Aquitaine -> Bordeaux
I would like a temporary category “French House” since I probably won’t be going there again, but might want to remember the name of the restaurant in the future so I can tell my friend about it. I don't want it add it to -> Bordeaux -> French House since if I go to 10 restaurants at every town, I would end up with 1000+ categories that I won't use again.
The “do not export” option saves the “French House” in the… database right? But not in the photo’s XMP.
- In this situation, it still appears in the category tree. The tree would become a huge mess with hundreds of place names that I might not visit again the future.
- If I delete the category "French House" from the tree to keep it clean and if I click on the photo again in the future because it doesn’t re-create the category from the database since it's not re-reading the catalog up update the categories tree.
- This applies also if I delete "Bordeaux" from the tree that is saved in a photo’s xmp, and if I click on the photo again, it won’t recreate that missing category since it doesn’t re-read the meta data. I would have to manually do a "update catalog from files".
- If I move the photo somewhere else or send it to a friend or look at it with a different program, the “French House” won’t appear anywhere so that data entry is lost except in the XNView database. If the database gets corrupt or deleted, the “French House” tag is lost forever
I had to go back to using Adobe Bridge 2022 because it does exactly that.
I have a category tree in Bridge – if I click on a photo that has "French House" but it is not part of my tree, it appears as a “temporary keyword” and will disappear from my category tree once I shut down Bridge. If I open Bridge again in the future, "French House" is not there until I click on the photo again. So my category tree stays the way I want it.
Unfortunately, Adobe Bridge 2022 is the only stable release and even that's a bit of a mess. Adobe Bridge 2023-2025 is useless since it's so buggy.
I hope you understand what I’m trying to explain
Thanks!
I think XNView reads a photo meta data on the initial selection / view, saves that information in the database, but doesn’t read it again when you click on the same photo. This can be manually initiated by "update catalog from file" but it has to be manually done every time for every photo.
As I mentioned above, I (and probably other people) have tons of keywords that they might use once or twice, but won’t use it again in the future, but it still would be nice to associate the photo with that keyword.
Example: I have a Photo of a restaurant in Bordeaux named "French House".
I tag it as Europe -> France -> Nouvelle-Aquitaine -> Bordeaux
I would like a temporary category “French House” since I probably won’t be going there again, but might want to remember the name of the restaurant in the future so I can tell my friend about it. I don't want it add it to -> Bordeaux -> French House since if I go to 10 restaurants at every town, I would end up with 1000+ categories that I won't use again.
The “do not export” option saves the “French House” in the… database right? But not in the photo’s XMP.
- In this situation, it still appears in the category tree. The tree would become a huge mess with hundreds of place names that I might not visit again the future.
- If I delete the category "French House" from the tree to keep it clean and if I click on the photo again in the future because it doesn’t re-create the category from the database since it's not re-reading the catalog up update the categories tree.
- This applies also if I delete "Bordeaux" from the tree that is saved in a photo’s xmp, and if I click on the photo again, it won’t recreate that missing category since it doesn’t re-read the meta data. I would have to manually do a "update catalog from files".
- If I move the photo somewhere else or send it to a friend or look at it with a different program, the “French House” won’t appear anywhere so that data entry is lost except in the XNView database. If the database gets corrupt or deleted, the “French House” tag is lost forever
I had to go back to using Adobe Bridge 2022 because it does exactly that.
I have a category tree in Bridge – if I click on a photo that has "French House" but it is not part of my tree, it appears as a “temporary keyword” and will disappear from my category tree once I shut down Bridge. If I open Bridge again in the future, "French House" is not there until I click on the photo again. So my category tree stays the way I want it.
Unfortunately, Adobe Bridge 2022 is the only stable release and even that's a bit of a mess. Adobe Bridge 2023-2025 is useless since it's so buggy.
I hope you understand what I’m trying to explain
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- Author of XnView
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Ok, so 'do not export' is not what you search. But i don't understand, what is the purpose of temporary keywords.aquahiker wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:53 pm I have a category tree in Bridge – if I click on a photo that has "French House" but it is not part of my tree, it appears as a “temporary keyword” and will disappear from my category tree once I shut down Bridge. If I open Bridge again in the future, "French House" is not there until I click on the photo again. So my category tree stays the way I want it.
So during a session, in Bridge you can create temporary categories, but where do they appear? this categories are written to files?
Pierre.
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Temporary Categories Is so your Category Tree doesn't get cluttered with information you might not want on a permanent basis.
I'll try to do another simple example.
Here's my Category tree:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
So for this example, it's 3 levels - Continent -> Country -> City
Let's say I have a photo (Photo 1) from Munich. Since Munich is NOT in my category tree, XNView would add it as a permanent entry:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Munich
If I visit 20 other cities in Germany and ate at a restaurant at each city with photos (Photo 2 - Photo 20) NOT tagged in XNView, XNView would add it as a permanent entry:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Munich
Restaurant 1
City 2
Restaurant 2
City 3
Restaurant 2
City 4... etc
You can see how the category tree would grow to be a mess. When you close XNView and open it again, all the cities and restaurants will still be there.
How Bridge handles it:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Other Keywords:
Munich
Restaurant 1
City 2
Restaurant 2
City 3
Restaurant 2
City 4... etc
If I close Bridge and open it again, all I will see is:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
The keywords Munich and Restaurant is still in Photo 1's XMP and IPTC. Just not in the Category tree.
I'll try to do another simple example.
Here's my Category tree:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
So for this example, it's 3 levels - Continent -> Country -> City
Let's say I have a photo (Photo 1) from Munich. Since Munich is NOT in my category tree, XNView would add it as a permanent entry:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Munich
If I visit 20 other cities in Germany and ate at a restaurant at each city with photos (Photo 2 - Photo 20) NOT tagged in XNView, XNView would add it as a permanent entry:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Munich
Restaurant 1
City 2
Restaurant 2
City 3
Restaurant 2
City 4... etc
You can see how the category tree would grow to be a mess. When you close XNView and open it again, all the cities and restaurants will still be there.
How Bridge handles it:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
Other Keywords:
Munich
Restaurant 1
City 2
Restaurant 2
City 3
Restaurant 2
City 4... etc
If I close Bridge and open it again, all I will see is:
Europe
-> France
-> Paris
-> Germany
The keywords Munich and Restaurant is still in Photo 1's XMP and IPTC. Just not in the Category tree.
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
OK - I attached photos - hopefully it will make more sense
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- Author of XnView
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
ok, so a way to not automatically import and CREATE categories from files into categories tree. And in case of categories not in the categories tree, add them in 'Others Categories', right?
Pierre.
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Yes! And the "Other Categories" should be discarded once you close XNView (but the information is still saved in the photo).
And also re-read the photo's keywords when you select the photo even if it's in the database already.
Thanks!
And also re-read the photo's keywords when you select the photo even if it's in the database already.
Thanks!
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- XnThusiast
- Posts: 2144
- Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 9:37 am
Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
no need to change anything
Categories pane must always show all imported keywords as this is the only one place where you can see all cataloged keywords (not in Catalog filter). Bridge is bad example for this case as it has simple keywords management system w/o "sets/groups", check Lightroom or Capture One.
use Category Sets pane:
1. create your Set
2. add any Keywords there
3. use it
@xnview
need to create "Default" Set and add all default Categories there to make it clearer how it works
Categories pane must always show all imported keywords as this is the only one place where you can see all cataloged keywords (not in Catalog filter). Bridge is bad example for this case as it has simple keywords management system w/o "sets/groups", check Lightroom or Capture One.
use Category Sets pane:
1. create your Set
2. add any Keywords there
3. use it
@xnview
need to create "Default" Set and add all default Categories there to make it clearer how it works
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- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:28 pm
Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
I'll have to disagree.
If you have 100 photos tagged to 100 different restaurants, do you want to see a list of 100 restaurant names listed in the category pane even though you won't use those restaurant names again? How about 1000?
G
If you have 100 photos tagged to 100 different restaurants, do you want to see a list of 100 restaurant names listed in the category pane even though you won't use those restaurant names again? How about 1000?
G
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- XnThusiast
- Posts: 2144
- Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 9:37 am
Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Whether you like it or not, this is how the app should work by design.
Categories pane must show all Keywords from Catalog, 100 or 1000 it does not matter.
You have to use Category Sets to organize them.
ps: if you do not need autoimport of Keywords - disable in Settings>Metadata
Categories pane must show all Keywords from Catalog, 100 or 1000 it does not matter.
You have to use Category Sets to organize them.
ps: if you do not need autoimport of Keywords - disable in Settings>Metadata
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
Like I said - we disagree and I think you're wrong. Category panel will become unmanageable. Most photographers will agree. But whatever. I'll keep using Bridge / Lightroom unless some other app has a better combined solution.
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
"So Categories can only be created with ui?"
I'm not sure what you're asking...
I'm not sure what you're asking...
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- Author of XnView
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Re: Temporary Categories / Keywords
You can create new category in categories panel, but when you browse files, category tree is not changed (categories are imported as temporary if not present)?
Pierre.