Multi-level UnDo: Change number of UnDos

[Pamela]

Hello,

Firstly, let me say thank you for a superb program - I've been using XNView for years now. It's time for me to donate, I know, and I will definitely do that, but I do spread the word as often as I can. It's amazing you give this great software to us for free. I love it.

I have a question about the UNDO feature. I can't seem to figure out how to increase the number of times the option can be used per image. There are times I need to undo more than twice (I think this is the default?). I've looked everywhere but can't seem to find it.

Best to you,
Pamela

[oops66]

Hello,
Firstly, let me say thank you for a superb program - I've been using XNView for years now. It's time for me to donate, I know, and I will definitely do that, but I do spread the word as often as I can. It's amazing you give this great software to us for free. I love it.
I have a question about the UNDO feature. I can't seem to figure out how to increase the number of times the option can be used per image. There are times I need to undo more than twice (I think this is the default?). I've looked everywhere but can't seem to find it.
Best to you,
Pamela

Hello Pamela,
I agree, and I support this request.
It will be a nice improvment to have a custumized Undo function under XnView.
Right now, it's only one time (not twice), but it will be better to have an option to select the Undo number of times (maybe only in the xnview.ini file in a first time ?).

[Clo]

—> oops66

Hello !

• The Pamela's request has been expressed here n… times and (greatly) discussed a long while ago
(I would bet that Mr. Librarian shall rush to find out that! )…

…(maybe only in the xnview.ini file in a first time ?).

¤ In brief, the dilemma is :
• On one hand : “Undo” only once doesn't the trick in frequent cases. For instance, to try several successive effects
I'm bound to work with a backup-copy…
• On the other hand : More “undo” levels = more memory that's used,
that could become unbearable for big pics with many machines.

- Hence, yes, I support an extra INI entry as a first step to improve that feature,
each user could tweak it according to her¦his hardware, at her¦his own risks

- And indeed, we'll document it in our Manual …

KR
Claude
Clo

[JohnFredC]

Here I go again, proselytizing for non-destructive editing in XnView.

• - If XnView kept a log of every action applied to the original file...
  - If the XnView automatically saved the log as a conversion script...
  - If there was a transparent mechanism to link the name of the conversion script to the original filename...
  - If XnView always copied/moved the (now linked) conversion script with the original...

then:

• 1. XnView could implement an additional non-destructive "mode" of working with images. There would be two modes a user could choose: The current mode ("Destructive") and the new mode ("Non-destructive")
  
  2. In "Non-destructive" mode, saving would save the conversion script only, not the original image. XnView would re-apply the conversion steps to the original when opening it.
  
  3. Since the history of conversion steps would always be available, in "Non-destructive" mode, a user could at any time use the conversion script to select an Undo point. XnView would delete the subsequent conversion steps from the conversion script and re-apply the script to the image.
  
  4. When in "Non-destructive" mode, the user could "Render" the conversion steps directly into the original at any time. This would modify the original and reset its companion script to empty. The Render action would not be undoable, so the user would be warned first.
  
  5. Once XnView automatically maintains the conversion script, a simple mechanism to save different versions of the conversion script file would implement Versioning in XnView. When opening an image which had multiple companion conversion scripts, XnView could inquire which version to show.
  
  6. XnView could maintain a thumb of each version in the thumbnail database and represent the conversion script files in the browser as rendered thumbs...

The first implementation step in this paradigm would be for XnView to capture the conversion script by logging the user's activities in the image.

For instance, suppose when you opened the Conversion dialog, your preceding edits on the current image appeared by default in the transformation tab?

Naturally, in non-destructive mode, images would open more slowly as XnView rendered the script actions. A user could be reminded of this when switching modes.

The basic parts of this idea really can't be technically difficult to implement under the current XnView architecture, and would bring many benefits, not the least being a variable undo functionality.

[Clo]

—> JohnFredC

Hello John !

• That sounds really good ! Roughly, I agree all points.
- Only a detail that tickles me :

6. XnView could maintain a thumb of each version in the thumbnail database
and represent the conversion script files in the browser as rendered thumbs…

• I would prefer a separate database (if possible) for the files having versions,
in order to avoid fat in the current main single database…

- Just a guess : Isn't it possible to create an external “third-party” plugin to do so ?
- I mean : Something like in TC, since here we miss such a kind of plugins to improve functions of the programme,
that I called “Active additional Plugins” in THAT THREAD ages ago ? And like you wrote too

:…If XNView had a generalized plugin interface, then "fancy" functionality such as I suggested above could be implemented in plugin DLLs. Then users with disk space issues could choose not to install specific functionality (represented by the corresponding plugin DLLs) in order to make the XNView footprint smaller in their target storage device.

Unsuccessfully…

KR
Claude
Clo

[XnTriq]

• The Pamela's request has been expressed here n… times and (greatly) discussed a long while ago
(I would bet that Mr. Librarian shall rush to find out that! )…

• Undo / Redo
  • Usability suggestions
  • Undo (xnview 1.80)
  • More UNDOs and REDOs
  • TAB behavoir / merging / more undo / other..
  • very limited undo
  • Undo-Button Mistake
  • [Duplicate] UNDO history
  • New to XnView
  Undo specific to Cropping / JPEG Lossless Transformations
  • Lossless crop improvements » Post #29050
  • jpeg lossless transformation prevw. picture and last setting
  • Saving selection after undo
  Non-Destructive Editing / Versioning
  • More UNDOs and REDOs » Post #15336
  • xnview slows down on large folders » Post #34532
  • Image adjustment/transformation scripts
  • My thoughts on Picasa
  • Copy XMP with DNG
  • Enhanced support for paired Raw/JPEG photos » Post #48676
  • Configure companion files » Post #52748
  • Feature Suggestion: Shaddow/Highlight » Post #54339

[xnview]

Ok, about Redo, in most of edit program, we have Ctrl+Y for REDO, but Ctrl+Y is already for CROP.
So must i change hotkey for crop or use another hotkey for REDO
Dreamer ?

[Clo]

—> Pierre

Hello !

• The short cut isn't the main issue here… The problem is to increase the depth of “Undo¦Redo”, one level is really poooor !
- Please reread the related old threads found out by our Eminent Librarian

- The way proposed by JohnFredC seems the best one, let's say : A plugin¦feature to create scripts for images
having several versions, if I understood correctly.

KR
Claude
Clo

[oops66]

...
- The way proposed by JohnFredC seems the best one, let's say : A plugin¦feature to create scripts for images
having several versions, if I understood correctly....
Clo

Hello,
Yes but, for me, Xnview is mostly a viewer, and should stay at the viewer software status.
JohnFredC way is very interesting(non-destructive), but also consume a lot of time of computing to UNDO or Redo the image for each steps (and is not always possible or easy to do : with paint module, or 8bf filters, or externals softs,...).
For me the best way is the fast one and the easiest for Xnview.
Then, the solution for me is to store in TMP memory (or HDD), one 2 , 3 ,... n... changes for the redo/undo function ( setup into xnview.ini with a maximum amount of memory and/or a numbers of undo times - and the original one must stay in tmp memory during all the process).
By this way, it's faster but destructive of course (if the image is saved with the same name), but it's not a problem for an images viewer.

[Clo]

—> oops66

Hello !

Yes but, for me, Xnview is mostly a viewer, and should stay at the viewer software status. …

• I don't think so… Indeed, I dislike that the programme overlaps to functions belonging to other specialized softs
(especially those of advanced file-managers…), but the processing is part of it.
- The single poor “Undo” level puts it in a disadvantage with regard to its competitors.
- I use mostly the built-in effects - not a lot- and would like to use 2… 3… effects successively,
choose the best result (with some “Undo” meanwhile eventually) then save my image definitely.
- The xPaint tool - requested to retouch images - is totally unable to do that (*)
so I guess that we'ld keep it out the topic…
- Some “Active” plugin based on the JohnFredC's proposal could make everybody happy :
- For your workflow, don't install¦use it, and continue as usual to rummage in your HDs…
- For mine - and legion of other users' - install the plugin and use it when needed (it could be loaded on demand too…)

• That way is very convenient and efficient… Naturally, whether you don't use Total Commander
(or any similar advanced file-manager) you can't get that easily…

(*) Please, click on the “ ” button of the capture¦mock-up…

KR
Claude
Clo

[oops66]

—> oops66
Hello !

Yes but, for me, Xnview is mostly a viewer, and should stay at the viewer software status. …

• I don't think so… Indeed, I dislike that the programme overlaps to functions belonging to other specialized softs
(especially those of advanced file-managers…), but the processing is part of it.
- The single poor “Undo” level puts it in a disadvantage with regard to its competitors.
- I use mostly the built-in effects - not a lot- and would like to use 2… 3… effects successively,
choose the best result (with some “Undo” meanwhile eventually) then save my image definitely.
- The xPaint tool - requested to retouch images - is totally unable to do that (*)
so I guess that we'ld keep it out the topic…
- Some “Active” plugin based on the JohnFredC's proposal could make everybody happy :
- For your workflow, don't install¦use it, and continue as usual to rummage in your HDs…
- For mine - and legion of other users' - install the plugin and use it when needed (it could be loaded on demand too…)
• That way is very convenient and efficient… Naturally, whether you don't use Total Commander
(or any similar advanced file-manager) you can't get that easily…
(*) Please, click on the “ ” button of the capture¦mock-up…)
KR
Claude
Clo

Yes Clo but, a plugin is only a plugin (for extra stuffs).
Xnview also need an onboard Undo/Redo function with at least 3,4 or more real steps.
But of course, in the future both ways can be implemented .

PS: the concurance will be too hard if Xnview becomes a retouch images sofware, instead a images Viewer software + (like: open source GIMP, and a lot of others freeware ...)

[xnview]

Non destructive UNDO is very interesting but need a lot of work.
In next release, i've added more than 1 undo, so i need a hotkey for REDO

(
in most of edit program, we have Ctrl+Y for REDO, but Ctrl+Y is already for CROP.
So must i change hotkey for crop or use another hotkey for REDO
Dreamer?
)

[Troken]

Non destructive UNDO is very interesting but need a lot of work.
In next release, i've added more than 1 undo, so i need a hotkey for REDO

(
in most of edit program, we have Ctrl+Y for REDO, but Ctrl+Y is already for CROP.
So must i change hotkey for crop or use another hotkey for REDO
Dreamer?
)

Ctrl+SH+Z ?

[oops66]

Non destructive UNDO is very interesting but need a lot of work.
In next release, i've added more than 1 undo, so i need a hotkey for REDO
(
in most of edit program, we have Ctrl+Y for REDO, but Ctrl+Y is already for CROP.
So must i change hotkey for crop or use another hotkey for REDO
Dreamer?
)

Hello,
Yes, please, keep the standard hotkey for Redo : Crtl + Y
And change Crop hotkey to an other one.
Congratulations for your own initiative Pierre about the next release and the number of Undo-Redo levels.

[xnview]

Non destructive UNDO is very interesting but need a lot of work.
In next release, i've added more than 1 undo, so i need a hotkey for REDO
(
in most of edit program, we have Ctrl+Y for REDO, but Ctrl+Y is already for CROP.
So must i change hotkey for crop or use another hotkey for REDO
Dreamer?
)

Hello,
Yes, please, keep the standard hotkey for Redo : Crtl + Y
And change Crop hotkey to an other one.

So which for Crop