Categories and tags

[Coldie67]

Hallo
My Question is concerning Tags and categories in IPTC Data
What is the difference?
Background: I World like to work with that files e.g. In Adobe Elements. And there the categories from XN View are interpreted as Tags.
Is there a necessity or Even a possibility to Transfer all the Categories to the Tag Field?

IF I would change now to Tags and Not longer to categories what would be the effect ?
Thanks

[xnview]

Tags in XnView? it's only a checkbox

[michel038]

1) Tags
- in most softwares, "tag" means "keyword"
tagging = adding keywords
many kinds of metadata keywords are possible (exif kw, iptc kw, xmp kw, xmp sidecar kw, xmp hierarchical kw)

- in XnViewMP "tag" is a marking feature, no metadata corresponding.

2) Category
- An old iptc metadata is called category.. Almost nobody uses them anymore.
- "Categories" in XnViewMP is a tool designed to manage a database (filter, search, ...) and to manage keywords.
in Settings > metadata , if you check "export categories to ..." , and check "create xmp", then adding a category to a photo will WRITE xmp keywords.

3)
If you have a lot of photos having categories, but where export option was not enabled, you'll have to force XnViewMP to write keywords.
1) For jpeg's, check "export...", check "create iptc" or "create xmp" or both. (you need to know what you want)
2) For raw files , check "update or create sidecar xmp"
then
select files , click on "View > Update files from catalog" (the catalog IS the categories database, and it will update your photos by writng keywords)

4)
if you have many photos tagged with other softwares, you can set XnViewMP to read the tags (settings > Metadata > Import ...)
in Settings > Catalog , use "Import Folder" button . The tags will be read and added in categories of XnViewMP catalog.

[Coldie67]

Dear Michel - Thank you so much / Merci Beaucoup

1) Tags
- in most softwares, "tag" means "keyword"
tagging = adding keywords
many kinds of metadata keywords are possible (exif kw, iptc kw, xmp kw, xmp sidecar kw, xmp hierarchical kw)

- in XnViewMP "tag" is a marking feature, no metadata corresponding.

Got it - but in XNVIEWMP there is in the IPTC Fields a folder called "Schlüsselwörter (german) / keywords" - if I import the keywords from Adobe PS Elements they are shown there.
From 2013 on I just worked with XN View and there with categories in IPTC, and all are written in the IPTC. But Adobe does not detect.

2) Category
- An old iptc metadata is called category.. Almost nobody uses them anymore. (just me maybe )
- "Categories" in XnViewMP is a tool designed to manage a database (filter, search, ...) and to manage keywords.
in Settings > metadata , if you check "export categories to ..." , and check "create xmp", then adding a category to a photo will WRITE xmp keywords.

In my settings it is defined to create IPTC as well as XMP Metadates.

3)
If you have a lot of photos having categories, but where export option was not enabled, you'll have to force XnViewMP to write keywords.
1) For jpeg's, check "export...", check "create iptc" or "create xmp" or both. (you need to know what you want)
2) For raw files , check "update or create sidecar xmp" -

this for RAW files I couldn´t find ....


then
select files , click on "View > Update files from catalog" (the catalog IS the categories database, and it will update your photos by writng keywords)

4)
if you have many photos tagged with other softwares, you can set XnViewMP to read the tags (settings > Metadata > Import ...)
in Settings > Catalog , use "Import Folder" button . The tags will be read and added in categories of XnViewMP catalog.

If I do that in Adobe and then import the files they are written in IPTC keywords...

Anyhow I think for organizing the files I should stick to XN View but maybe change to write keywords not categories. Then Adobe will be able to read. The only question would be - if necessary - how to change the categories in the old files to keywords or to find a way to select / filter categories and keywords.

But thank you so much for explanation, thats really big support.
Merci !

[michel038]

2) Category
- An old iptc metadata is called category.. Almost nobody uses them anymore. (just me maybe )
From 2013 on I just worked with XN View and there with categories in IPTC, and all are written in the IPTC. But Adobe does not detect.

iptc:categories is a 3 characters field that was used by associated press.
Are you talking about the one you can display in "edit iptc" window , kategorien ?

iptc_cat.png (2.45 KiB) Viewed 8442 times

Perhaps some recent Adobe softwares won't show this field anymore ?

If I do that in Adobe and then import the files they are written in IPTC keywords...
to find a way to select / filter categories and keywords...

there is in the IPTC Fields a folder called "Schlüsselwörter (german) / keywords" - if I import the keywords from Adobe PS Elements they are shown there.

Right
IPTC:keywords (or XMP:subject as well ) is the standardized way to save embedded keywords in files.
Any software should be able to read and write these keywords.

"Import folders" button in XnViewMP is used when keywords are written by another software, in order to build the internal database (Catalog)
Then, you can use "Categories filter" pane, and select items to display corresponding photos.

XnViewMp "Settings >Metadata > Export options" are used to enable keywords writing into embedded metadata as standard method for saving keywords.



If you use only xnviewmp for tagging , with export options enabled, obviously it's not necessary to import anything, xnviewmp handles it's database automatically.
-Select photos
-check a category ("Categories" pane)
-Unselect photos
- Categories count is updated (see categories filter) and keywords are saved.
- Select a (not empty) category in "Categories filter" (*)
- Photos having correspondind categories(=keywords) are shown.

"Category" is the name of the tool that permits all these steps

(*) Categories filter:
First, set your own options in "Match" (Ubereinsstimmungen) menu , at the top of this pane.
Ctrl-Click to select more than one category
Alt-Click to exclude a category

[michel038]

If you have a lot of photos having an "iptc:category" field used,
you should perhaps consider the usefulness of copying this data into a new, relevant and more commonly used field ?

Select a test photo
Tools>Metadata>Transfer...
choose a target field, "iptc:title" for example (or any other field ?)
select iptc category as source
Apply
...
If it's useful, select a bunch of photos, and so on ...

if you have thousands, you can use "View > View files in subfolders" to select a big set ...

[Coldie67]

e: Categories and tags

by michel038 » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:51 pm

2) Category
- An old iptc metadata is called category.. Almost nobody uses them anymore. (just me maybe )
From 2013 on I just worked with XN View and there with categories in IPTC, and all are written in the IPTC. But Adobe does not detect.

iptc:categories is a 3 characters field that was used by associated press.
Are you talking about the one you can display in "edit iptc" window , kategorien ?

Exactly.

iptc_cat.png
iptc_cat.png (2.45 KiB) Viewed 54 times

Perhaps some recent Adobe softwares won't show this field anymore ?
It is adobe PE 22 - does not show it - right


If I do that in Adobe and then import the files they are written in IPTC keywords...
to find a way to select / filter categories and keywords...

there is in the IPTC Fields a folder called "Schlüsselwörter (german) / keywords" - if I import the keywords from Adobe PS Elements they are shown there.

Right

IPTC:keywords (or XMP:subject as well ) is the standardized way to save embedded keywords in files.
Any software should be able to read and write these keywords.

I tried and that works (transfer from XN View to Adobe PE)

"Import folders" button in XnViewMP is used when keywords are written by another software, in order to build the internal database (Catalog)
Then, you can use "Categories filter" pane, and select items to display corresponding photos.

Got it.

XnViewMp "Settings >Metadata > Export options" are used to enable keywords writing into embedded metadata as standard method for saving keywords.

I never did before but all the "categories" are saved within the IPTC files (as well as the star evaluation)



If you use only xnviewmp for tagging
I do not use XMP

, with export options enabled, obviously it's not necessary to import anything, xnviewmp handles it's database automatically.
-Select photos
-check a category ("Categories" pane)
-Unselect photos
- Categories count is updated (see categories filter) and keywords are saved.
- Select a (not empty) category in "Categories filter" (*)
- Photos having correspondind categories(=keywords) are shown.

"Category" is the name of the tool that permits all these steps

(*) Categories filter:
First, set your own options in "Match" (Ubereinsstimmungen) menu , at the top of this pane.
Ctrl-Click to select more than one category
Alt-Click to exclude a category

If you have a lot of photos having an "iptc:category" field used,
you should perhaps consider the usefulness of copying this data into a new, relevant and more commonly used field ?

This is exactly what I would like to do, because if I would like to use my given "categories" in Adobe PE I Have to do transfer this informations to keywords. So I would be able to work with my photos from the past

Select a test photo
Tools>Metadata>Transfer...
choose a target field, "iptc:title" for example (or any other field ?)
select iptc category as source
Apply

And here is my problem: IPTC Category I can choose as source but then I have to fill in which category - this I do not understand. Maybe I am wrong?

...
If it's useful, select a bunch of photos, and so on ...

if you have thousands, you can use "View > View files in subfolders" to select a big set ...

That would be wonderful, but so far it is not working for a single photo ...

[Coldie67]

Sorry mistake:

Select a test photo
Tools>Metadata>Transfer...
choose a target field, "iptc:title" for example (or any other field ?)
select iptc category as source
Apply

And here is my problem: IPTC Category I can NOT choose as source but keywords. Even then I have to fill in which keyword - this I do not understand. Maybe I am wrong?

[Coldie67]

[Coldie67]

To sum it up:

- Future: I just will use keywords. They are transferable to Adobe PE, there I can work with them
- Past: Since 2013 I used "categories". To make it possible to use this information I would have
possibility 1) to transfer the "categories" to keywords (in XN View) for all that thousands of photos.
possibility 2) If this is not possible I would have to fill in keywords in Adobe PE, then save it in the metadata, then transfer it to XN View (complicated). Additionally then I would have to transfer the keywords to the categories (in XN View) so that I would be able to select with one criteria in all my photos.

Absolutely I would prefer 1) if there is any chance.

[michel038]

I tried 2 kinds of iptc:categories:

First, add (+) the target field = iptc:keywords (IPTC > Stichwörter)
Then choose source field = iptc:category (IPTC > Stichwörter&Kategorien > Kategorie
Apply > it is working.

OR

Choose target field = iptc:keywords (IPTC > Stichwörter)
Then choose source field = iptc:supplemental category (IPTC > Stichwörter&Kategorien > Weitere Kategorien
Apply > it is working as well

Now, iptc keywords are ok, but XnViewMp did not update it's catalog, because "Metadata > Transfer" is not a classical way to add keywords .
So you need to select again the processed photos, and click "View > Update catalog from files" (Katalog aus Dateien aktualisieren)

"XnViewMp Categories" corresponding to new keywords will appear in Categories pane and in Categories filter pane ....

[Coldie67]

Dear Michel
thanks a lot!

First, add (+) the target field = iptc:keywords (IPTC > Stichwörter)
Then choose source field = iptc:category (IPTC > Stichwörter&Kategorien > Kategorie
Apply > it is working.

I tried again and it worked. What I had to change was not to use "Kategorien", instead of that I had to choose as source field "Weitere Kategorien".
Now I could find it in the keywords.
Means for me the I can work along possibility 1) and that means that I can use all the "weitere Kategorien" as keywords in Adobe PS Elements.

Just to make it sure: for that I do not have to actualize the catalogue - right?

Thanks again, that was really a great support, you made my day.
Regards
Oliver

[michel038]

Just to make it sure: for that I do not have to actualize the catalogue - right?

If your only purpose is to transfer categories into iptc keywords, you don't need to update the xnview catalog.

But having a catalog synchronized with keywords allows you to check the progress of your work, and to learn how to use XnViewMP's filtering and search features, in case you decide to stop paying Adobe.

At the end of this work, you can also delete the catalog (Settings >Catalog > Delete all) and rebuild it by adding the parent folder of all your photos in Settings > Catalog > Import folder. Then, you will probably find some small mistakes in "categories filter" pane ... (uncategorized ?, wrong keywords ? ...)


If you want to replace some keywords, there are some steps to follow :
-select photos having keyword1 with categories filter
-right click in categories pane to create "keyword2"
-check keyword2 and uncheck keyword1
- wait a short while
- unselect photos
and
-select category keyword 2 , select a photo and look at IPTC info pane to check if new keyword is ok.

[FKCapitalism2]

I don't see option to write categories (keywords) into IPTC data for RAW files, it only does so for JPG, for RAW's (Sony .ARW files) for some reason it always creates .XMP sidecar files, which is undesired behavior.

How can i set up XnView MP to write Rating, Color Data and Categories (Keywords) directly into IPTC?



With this settings whenever i update RAW files from catalog it always creates XMP file.

[michel038]

Raw files do not support IPTC metadata ... but only XMP
Rating and Color labels do not exist in IPTC format. (years ago, rating could be stored in exif:microsoft space)

Some raw files support embedded xmp metadata, some others need a companion (sidecar) file where xmp informations will be written.
Raw files are defined by the manufacturers; there is no standardized method for attaching metadata to them by any means other than sidecar files.