Batch Rename: "Duplicate" dialog

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helmut
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Batch Rename: "Duplicate" dialog

Post by helmut » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:41 pm

I just had a closer look at the subdialog "Duplicate name" of Batch Rename (Tools > Batch Rename).

Some possible improvements:

- Option not needed
In 1.82 Alpha, there are radiobuttons

--- Add ---
(o) Always
( ) Only if needed

I think the setting "Always" does not make sense. If the user really wants a suffix, he/she could add it in the main dialog in field "Name template".

Rather than "Always" there should be a checkbox "[x] Add suffix if needed to avoid name clash". And if unchecked, all other controls (suffix edittext, radiobuttons) should become grey since these do not apply.

- Alphabetical enumerator
In the suffix template, there's a checkbox for choosing whether the enumerator is numeric or alphabetical. Alphabetical enumerators are good for the handling of name clashes, they also can be useful in the filename template, too. So rather than having radiobuttons which set what the "#" means, we need an alphabetical enumerator. E.g., "$" could be used for this.

- Using Tabs
Currently there are discussion regarding the usage of "Tabs" in the "Batch Convert" dialog, see topic "Save As" for Browser vs. Batch Convert for details. The "Batch Rename" dialog has become very full and I wonder whether it's time to introduce tabs here, too. There could be a main tab with all the settings needed per rename session, and on a seperate tab all the options like handling of name clashes and settings when opening the dialog.

- "Insert >>" button
Not sure whether we will keep the subdialog "Duplicate name". Anyway, there should be a button "Insert >>" which allows for inserting the enumerator. (The menu will contain the numerical and alphabetical enumerators, only, but it will be helpful for those who forgot which chars the enumerators are.)

XnView 1.82 alpha

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:25 am

Note: Discussion on "Using Tabs..." has been split into a separate topic "Batch Rename with Tabs"

marsh
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Post by marsh » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:25 am

helmut wrote: - Alphabetical enumerator
In the suffix template, there's a checkbox for choosing whether the enumerator is numeric or alphabetical. Alphabetical enumerators are good for the handling of name clashes, they also can be useful in the filename template, too. So rather than having radiobuttons which set what the "#" means, we need an alphabetical enumerator. E.g., "$" could be used for this.
Good idea.

Another (less functional?) alternative to current subdialog would be:
'[x]Aphabetical Enumerator for #'.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:27 pm

marsh wrote:
helmut wrote:... So rather than having radiobuttons which set what the "#" means, we need an alphabetical enumerator. E.g., "$" could be used for this.
Good idea.
Thanks. I really think that this is the right way to go.
marsh wrote:Another (less functional?) alternative to current subdialog would be:
'[x]Aphabetical Enumerator for #'.
I think I don't quite understand: Currently, we have a setting "[x] Alphabetical enumerator for #" in "Duplicate..." subdialog. Moving this setting to the main dialog is impossible, since the user might have used an enumerator in the template for the filename. This setting must affect the enumerator for duplicates, only, not the one for the file template.
And having two checkboxes for "Alphabetical enumerator for #", one on the main dialog and one on the "Duplicate..." subdialog would be really bad.

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Post by marsh » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:25 pm

helmut wrote:
marsh wrote:Another (less functional?) alternative to current subdialog would be:
'[x]Aphabetical Enumerator for #'.
I think I don't quite understand: Currently, we have a setting "[x] Alphabetical enumerator for #" in "Duplicate..." subdialog. Moving this setting to the main dialog is impossible, since the user might have used an enumerator in the template for the filename. This setting must affect the enumerator for duplicates, only, not the one for the file template.
And having two checkboxes for "Alphabetical enumerator for #", one on the main dialog and one on the "Duplicate..." subdialog would be really bad.
I'm not sure how 'duplictates' is better than simply relying on single dialog like old version. If you use first dialog properly, when are duplicates produced? Other than "Use alphabet for #", it looks like 2 ways of performing same function.

Characters
Alpha is using characters, not just alphabet. Shouldn't this be alphabet instead (without symbols)? Duplicates are produced here when hundreds of files are renamed. Some symbols look identical to one another as well (many null characters!). And, I'm not sure how well file managers will see these symbols. If just 'letters' were used, then renaming could be done AA, BB, CC, DD instead when needed.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:58 pm

marsh wrote:...
I'm not sure how 'duplictates' is better than simply relying on single dialog like old version. If you use first dialog properly, when are duplicates produced? Other than "Use alphabet for #", it looks like 2 ways of performing same function.
The special thing about the enumerator used in "Duplicate" subdialog is that XnView will only add the enumerator if there are duplicates. So in fact this is a conditional/optional enumerator. That's a big difference to the enumerators in the main dialog.
E.g. you rename files and use the EXIF date and time in the filename template. There will be duplicate filenames if the photograph has taken a series of shots and there are several shots taken within a second. Then, duplicate handling and dialog is very useful.
marsh wrote:Characters
Alpha is using characters, not just alphabet. Shouldn't this be alphabet instead (without symbols)? Duplicates are produced here when hundreds of files are renamed. Some symbols look identical to one another as well (many null characters!). And, I'm not sure how well file managers will see these symbols. If just 'letters' were used, then renaming could be done AA, BB, CC, DD instead when needed.
I haven't tried the duplicate handling, yet, but what you describe sounds as if it is still buggy.

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Post by Guest » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:55 am

helmut wrote: The special thing about the enumerator used in "Duplicate" subdialog is that XnView will only add the enumerator if there are duplicates. So in fact this is a conditional/optional enumerator. That's a big difference to the enumerators in the main dialog.
E.g. you rename files and use the EXIF date and time in the filename template. There will be duplicate filenames if the photograph has taken a series of shots and there are several shots taken within a second. Then, duplicate handling and dialog is very useful.
Right. I forgot that completely- I was distracted by "Always" setting.
helmut wrote: I think the setting "Always" does not make sense. If the user really wants a suffix, he/she could add it in the main dialog in field "Name template".
The "$" sounds like a good substitute for "Always" also. I assume the purpose of this is to add letters when not a duplicate. :?

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Post by helmut » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:41 am

marsh wrote:...
Right. I forgot that completely- I was distracted by "Always" setting.
O.k.
marsh wrote:
helmut wrote: I think the setting "Always" does not make sense. If the user really wants a suffix, he/she could add it in the main dialog in field "Name template".
The "$" sounds like a good substitute for "Always" also. I assume the purpose of this is to add letters when not a duplicate. :?
Half right. The '$' would be an alphabetical enumerator and would work exactly like "#" which is a numerical enumerator.

Both enumerators could be used in both contexts (filename template or Duplicate handling). Though when using for duplicate handling, these would be only added if needed to avoid duplicates. As written above, the "Always" is superfluous since this can be handled by the normal filename template.

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Post by marsh » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:24 am

Perhaps the character set for "$" should be language file dependant (cf. exif_eng.lng)? Not all alphabets are the same, so this might be nice for non-English users.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:41 am

marsh wrote:Perhaps the character set for "$" should be language file dependant (cf. exif_eng.lng)? Not all alphabets are the same, so this might be nice for non-English users.
Good point. When thinking of an alphabet, this is always a, b, c, .... But for other language this might be different. At the beginning the English alphabet should be sufficient.

Personally I wouldn't like having German Umlauts as enumerators in my filenames sicne the umlauts haven't got a known place in the German alphabetical order. Not sure what alphabets in other languages are like.

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Post by Olivier_G » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:34 pm

helmut wrote:As written above, the "Always" is superfluous since this can be handled by the normal filename template.
I don't agree. I see a difference between:
- 12h20A, 12h20B, 12h21C, 12h22D... you would get with the normal filename template
- 12h20A, 12h20B, 12h21A, 12h22A... you would only be able to get with the duplicate template AND 'always'
(notice the 'restart' of index at each change in filename, which also means that only a few characters are needed for 'duplicate')

And as you suggested, I would like the possibility to mix alphabetical characters with numerical characters (cf: # and $ symbols).

Here is my previous suggestion (However, I prefer the new separate dialog and the 'Always'/'Only if needed' radio buttons, for simplicity).

Olivier

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Post by Nelson » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:57 am

Olivier_G wrote:I don't agree. I see a difference between:
- 12h20A, 12h20B, 12h21C, 12h22D... you would get with the normal filename template
- 12h20A, 12h20B, 12h21A, 12h22A... you would only be able to get with the duplicate template AND 'always'
(notice the 'restart' of index at each change in filename, which also means that only a few characters are needed for 'duplicate')
I agree with you, Olivier.
If I need filename like this:
20070120_001, 20070120_002, 20070122_001, 20070122_002,
this kind of suffix can only be done by "Duplicate" feature, but can't be done by "Name Template".

But from 1.90, the "Duplicate" feature becomes unclear, please see this thread.
In 1.82, the "Always" option works as what I expect, it always adds a suffix.

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Post by marsh » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:28 am

Beyond the rename dialog, this 'avoid duplicate' function would be an interesting way to directly assign a new filename wherever one already exists. Think about all the copy, convert, save functions.

"Do you want to overwrite?" [Yes/Rename/No].

Result: filename_AB.jpg, panorama_AB.png, etc.

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